Allergy Questions, Allergies and other reactions to oils

[terrenity]

I'm quoting myself from some months back just to make a point - I think that if you truly have a life-threatening, potential- anaphlytic-shock-inducing allergy to an ingredient that may be present in one of these perfumes, you need to tread with extreme caution here. Some dermatitis is one thing, a hospital stay or death is another.

 

For starters, I feel pretty confident that the Lab would be unable to guarantee that cross contamination will never occur - they use the same finite amount of equipment to fill bottles (and imps) with everything from their catalog and LE offerings (I don't think anyone could expect a company to have a separate machine for each of 500+ perfumes). It's cleaned to eliminate the scent of the previous oil before they begin filling bottles with another one - but it's impossible to ensure that every molecule from a previous oil is removed. So while a scent formula may contain none of your known allergens, the pristine bottle of that scent that arrives from the Lab could potentially contain allergens nonetheless, just as foods with no nut ingredients can contain nut particles or residue due to shared factory equipment. I would think very long and hard about whether that risk is worth it to me. It's not your fault and it's not the Lab's fault, it's just the situation.

 

And although a list seems like a good idea, if it is a life and death question and not a "will I break out" question, I believe that I would want to hear from the Lab directly and not rely on what someone else tells me the Lab told them or what someone else says they can wear safely.

 

I will try to bring these issues to the attention of someone at the Lab and see if they have any comments - I'm not their lawyer or spokesperson, this isn't even my area of the forum from a mod standpoint - I just get the itchies a lot so I pop in this thread fairly regularly.

I'm absolutely sure that you are right. There are very few companies that are willing to make the guarantee that a product will always be 'free' of an ingredient, and I have no doubt that cross-contamination can occur with limited equipment, regardless of how careful they are. That having been said, I personally feel safe enough to order from the Lab just as I feel safe enough to eat some foods that don't specify that they are absolutely peanut-free. My only truly severe allergy is to peanuts, and I feel safe ordering from the lab because I have never seen a blend with a 'peanut' note, am technically not allergic to good-quality peanut oil, and due to the nature of the business I imagine that the Lab maintains better cleaning practices between blends than might be found in other products. For me, the risk is worth it, but I imagine that a possible cross-contamination disclaimer might be a good thing for the Lab to put somewhere on their website.

 

I guess my idea of having a sort of list was less for people with life-threatening allergies and more for people with milder allergies (ie rashes), so that people can come and say "I know I have a problem with almond/jasmine/etc, and this blend made me itch even though it doesn't have it as a listed note. If you have a problem with ______, you might want to avoid this blend too." However, after reading your post and thinking about it, I do agree that such a thread could potentially cause problems for people with more severe allergies.

 

I would be interested to know if the Lab has any sort of comments on the allergy issue, though, particularly regarding the likelihood of cross-contamination.... let me know if you hear anything! I will also email the Lab this week and ask specifically whether they ever use peanut oil so that I know for certain whether I and others with peanut allergies should be concerned about that.

[Lethran]

I'm quoting myself from some months back just to make a point - I think that if you truly have a life-threatening, potential- anaphlytic-shock-inducing allergy to an ingredient that may be present in one of these perfumes, you need to tread with extreme caution here. Some dermatitis is one thing, a hospital stay or death is another.

 

For starters, I feel pretty confident that the Lab would be unable to guarantee that cross contamination will never occur - they use the same finite amount of equipment to fill bottles (and imps) with everything from their catalog and LE offerings (I don't think anyone could expect a company to have a separate machine for each of 500+ perfumes). It's cleaned to eliminate the scent of the previous oil before they begin filling bottles with another one - but it's impossible to ensure that every molecule from a previous oil is removed. So while a scent formula may contain none of your known allergens, the pristine bottle of that scent that arrives from the Lab could potentially contain allergens nonetheless, just as foods with no nut ingredients can contain nut particles or residue due to shared factory equipment. I would think very long and hard about whether that risk is worth it to me. It's not your fault and it's not the Lab's fault, it's just the situation.

 

And although a list seems like a good idea, if it is a life and death question and not a "will I break out" question, I believe that I would want to hear from the Lab directly and not rely on what someone else tells me the Lab told them or what someone else says they can wear safely.

 

I will try to bring these issues to the attention of someone at the Lab and see if they have any comments - I'm not their lawyer or spokesperson, this isn't even my area of the forum from a mod standpoint - I just get the itchies a lot so I pop in this thread fairly regularly.

I'm absolutely sure that you are right. There are very few companies that are willing to make the guarantee that a product will always be 'free' of an ingredient, and I have no doubt that cross-contamination can occur with limited equipment, regardless of how careful they are. That having been said, I personally feel safe enough to order from the Lab just as I feel safe enough to eat some foods that don't specify that they are absolutely peanut-free. My only truly severe allergy is to peanuts, and I feel safe ordering from the lab because I have never seen a blend with a 'peanut' note, am technically not allergic to good-quality peanut oil, and due to the nature of the business I imagine that the Lab maintains better cleaning practices between blends than might be found in other products. For me, the risk is worth it, but I imagine that a possible cross-contamination disclaimer might be a good thing for the Lab to put somewhere on their website.

 

I guess my idea of having a sort of list was less for people with life-threatening allergies and more for people with milder allergies (ie rashes), so that people can come and say "I know I have a problem with almond/jasmine/etc, and this blend made me itch even though it doesn't have it as a listed note. If you have a problem with ______, you might want to avoid this blend too." However, after reading your post and thinking about it, I do agree that such a thread could potentially cause problems for people with more severe allergies.

 

I would be interested to know if the Lab has any sort of comments on the allergy issue, though, particularly regarding the likelihood of cross-contamination.... let me know if you hear anything! I will also email the Lab this week and ask specifically whether they ever use peanut oil so that I know for certain whether I and others with peanut allergies should be concerned about that.

 

Reading all this, I'm feeling very lucky that the only one I had a potentially serious reaction to was an Le ingredient I've only seen in one blend. A rash is annoying, but not life threatening.

[ivyandpeony]

Reading over my post this morning, I hope that it didn't come off as unsympathetic to anyone who does deal w/ the kind of allergies that terrenity, ymmat and others have. I've read so many articles about families with kids who have life threatening peanut allergies, for example - hearing the precautions they have to take and how terrifying it is to send their children off to school each day makes me so appreciative that I don't have to worry about being poisoned, basically, by something that's so prevalent in our food supply and that nearly everyone else on the planet considers innocuous at the least, even a diet staple.

 

Allergies are a scary thing even when they seem to be mild. Mine have gotten worse as I've gotten older - I had hay fever as a kid which grew to a full spectrum of respiratory allergies as an adult and in the past year or so my skin has become very reactive, much less to particular substances but extremely so to any kind of trauma - pluck a hair on my face and I get a huge welt, absentmindedly scratch at my arm and it looks like I have been mauled, slightly itchy mystery welts will appear here and there throughout the day. And this is with a daily dose of both Zyrtec and Singulair, and I do see my allergist regularly. Even though I have been stung by bees in the past, for example, there's no guarantee that I won't have a horrendous reaction next time, since it's obvious that my allergies are escalating, so on a smaller scale I do appreciate the worries.

[ymmat]

No worries. It absolutely did not come off as unsympathetic. Anyone who lives with severe allergies knows that you ultimately have to take responsibility for dealing with it - whatever that entails. Even though I always ask (sometimes repeatedly) and try to avoid places where I know I'll run into peanut, it still happens sometimes. At lunch yesterday, something I ate got cross-contaminated. Thankfully, it was a tiny enough amount (and I caught it soon enough) that mega-Benadryl, Coke, cold air, and my inhaler kept me from having to do the hospital thing.

 

Since I don't eat the BPAL (although it is tempting), it's significantly less of an issue than dealing with my allergies elsewhere. It still might be helpful to have a running list, especially since there aren't readily available descriptions for everything. It's not something I would expect the lab to do, but if those of us who have known allergies/sensitivites just kept track of what caused us problems or things we knew to avoid, shared knowledge could save someone else a rash or two.

 

Reading over my post this morning, I hope that it didn't come off as unsympathetic to anyone who does deal w/ the kind of allergies that terrenity, ymmat and others have. I've read so many articles about families with kids who have life threatening peanut allergies, for example - hearing the precautions they have to take and how terrifying it is to send their children off to school each day makes me so appreciative that I don't have to worry about being poisoned, basically, by something that's so prevalent in our food supply and that nearly everyone else on the planet considers innocuous at the least, even a diet staple.

 

Allergies are a scary thing even when they seem to be mild. Mine have gotten worse as I've gotten older - I had hay fever as a kid which grew to a full spectrum of respiratory allergies as an adult and in the past year or so my skin has become very reactive, much less to particular substances but extremely so to any kind of trauma - pluck a hair on my face and I get a huge welt, absentmindedly scratch at my arm and it looks like I have been mauled, slightly itchy mystery welts will appear here and there throughout the day. And this is with a daily dose of both Zyrtec and Singulair, and I do see my allergist regularly. Even though I have been stung by bees in the past, for example, there's no guarantee that I won't have a horrendous reaction next time, since it's obvious that my allergies are escalating, so on a smaller scale I do appreciate the worries.

[t_for_tau]

I'd like to add my voice to the request for a list of oils which definitely contain nut allergens - a friend of mine with a nut allergy has just been enabled, and I'd like to know what oils not to give her....

[terrenity]

I would have to second everything ymmat said. I didn't think you sounded unsympathetic at all, and I appreciate that you are looking out for other BPALers with allergies. You brought up some good points that I hadn't previously thought of. -nod-

 

On that note, I will try to get an email out to the lab today inquiring about peanuts.

[tziporra]

Hey all,

 

I've had a very severe reaction to Blood Countess both times I've tried it (waaaaaahhhh!!!! I love Blood Countess!) -- the first time a headache that lasted twenty minutes during drydown (and that I hoped was blood sugar, not Blood Countess, related) the second time a headache that lasted all day.

 

In the 65 BPALs I've tried, this is the first to give me a headache.

 

I'd really like to avoid the problem note in the future, though, if possible -- if only so I don't fall madly in love with a particular scent that I have no chance of ever being able to wear.

 

From the description:

 

"Corrupted black plum, smoky opium and crumbling dead roses covered by a deceptive veil of Hungarian lilac, white gardenia and wild berry."

 

Any ideas on what it might be? I have worn lots of lab rose blends with no problem, ditto with the opium. I'm thinking plum or berry, but Bathsheba and Hanging Gardens both have plum listed as a note and I was fine there. Hanging Gardens also lists Gardenia....

 

Anyway, if you have a similar reaction to Blood Countess or any of these notes, I'd really appreciate a holler!

 

Thanks so much,

 

Tzi

[jparrack]

I have noticed that certain oils either give me a headache, or, in the case of Tintagel, an instantaneous rash which I needed to treat with immediate washing and antihistamine. I don't just mean some itching. I mean raised weals where I put the oil on my skin and silver dollar sized red, angry rash.

 

I noticed an itch with All Night Long as well, though I had Benadryl in my system, so it likely didn't turn into a rash on me.

 

Blood gave me a raging headache.

 

I am keeping a googledoc spreadsheet of oils tried, descriptions and physical reactions in an attempt to isolate triggering notes.

 

I've certainly had some good success with finding blends that don't set off my skin and/or headache reaction that I am determined to keep searching. I've avoided anything perfumey for so long because of these reactions, and now that I've found out there are scents I don't react too, I'm thrilled. I'll just keep the Benadryl handy when I try any new oil.

 

Edit: Blood Countess and Tann'iver both gave me rashes too.

Edited February 27, 2008 by morningglory

[LaChatonFou]

Yesterday I tried the Chuparosa (wonderful rosy scent w/ hint of maybe lilac?) and within 10 minutes every point on my skin that had been touched by the wand was red, swollen, burning, and itching. Simple soap and water took it off and calmed the skin. The only thing I know of that does that to me is pine oil, but is there pine oil in this blend? Don't think so. Maybe some kind of capsaicin or cinnamon? Too bad, b/c it smelled so nice; I'll swap it and on to the next elf ear!

[etienne]

I don't know if this is the right thread for it but it seemed the best option...

 

I was using TKO for the second time last night from a testable sniffie I got in a swap. I put some on plushie and kept it close to my face so that I could smell it. All good so far - then, at about 6am I woke up (thanks to the cat wanting feeding...), went back to bed 5 minutes later and took the TKO plushie near me again. When my alarm clock went off at 7:30am I felt extremely tired - much more so than usual. I felt a bit groggy and getting up was really hard work. I wondered if it was the TKO and the fact I fell asleep again with it so late in the morning so that the effect hadn't worn off yet by 7:30am? Has anyone experienced similar?

[erraticprophet]

I don't know if this is the right thread for it but it seemed the best option...

 

I was using TKO for the second time last night from a testable sniffie I got in a swap. I put some on plushie and kept it close to my face so that I could smell it. All good so far - then, at about 6am I woke up (thanks to the cat wanting feeding...), went back to bed 5 minutes later and took the TKO plushie near me again. When my alarm clock went off at 7:30am I felt extremely tired - much more so than usual. I felt a bit groggy and getting up was really hard work. I wondered if it was the TKO and the fact I fell asleep again with it so late in the morning so that the effect hadn't worn off yet by 7:30am? Has anyone experienced similar?

 

I don't know about anyone else's experiences with TKO, but I tend to wake up feeling very groggy when I get it on the fabrics near my head. I'm assuming that it's the prolonged sniffing that's doing it. When I have it only on my skin, I'm fine. It's usually faded before I wake up in the morning. But the few times I got it on my blankets or pillow, I'm dead beat for a good part of the morning-- but, then, I'm not a morning person either..

[akiko]

I had my first skin reaction today. Lucky me It was Inferno, which smelled *so good* then started itching and turned my wrists red. OF COURSE I'd also decided to put some behind my ears.

 

I ignored it and it went away after an hour or so. I'm not getting rid of it - it smells so good! I might pick up some jojoba oil and try diluting it, or put it in my oil diffuser, or get a scent locket. Or all of the above...

[marciabee]

" in the case of Tintagel, an instantaneous rash which I needed to treat with immediate washing and antihistamine. I don't just mean some itching. I mean raised weals where I put the oil on my skin and silver dollar sized red, angry rash.

 

Edit: Blood Countess and Tann'iver both gave me rashes too.

"

 

This was my reaction with a brand new bottle of Death On A Pale Horse. I put it on Wednesday before I went to work, and by 10 am, it looked as though I had burns on my neck. It was very itchy and stung. Today [saturday], it still itches when I touch the area, but the raised welts are at least gone. Under the flourescent lights in my kitchen, I can see a rash that looks like tiny insect bites.

 

I love the oil, and it's breaking my heart.

[CordeliaSeduced]

Sorry if this was covered in a previous post, but if it has, I'd be very grateful if someone could lead me in that direction--

 

My mother has a severe allergy to something in most perfumes. I thought I'd be safe buying perfume oils since I thought maybe it was the alcohol or another common ingredient, but apparently not. There are a few blends she's okay with--she was fine with March Hare, and she didn't seem to react to Cordelia. But the other night, I accidentally spilled some Bluebeard on my hand and she was doubled over in pain. (She tends to react with violent headaches and sometimes nausea. A really good reaction can put her in bed for days.)

She herself rarely wears perfume and when she does it's an old Avon blend that smells vaguely of lemons and champagne. I thought maybe it was a musk allergy, but the fact that she didn't react to Cordelia kind of scratches that off my list. Is there a terribly common ingredient in all these things that she would be reacting to? We'd both greatly appreciate any answers or speculation--this way, I can avoid ordering anything with this in it (or at least avoid wearing it around her).

 

Thank you very much!

Edited April 2, 2008 by CordeliaSeduced

[tziporra]

.... But the other night, I accidentally spilled some Bluebeard on my hand and she was doubled over in pain. (She tends to react with violent headaches and sometimes nausea. A really good reaction can put her in bed for days.)

She herself rarely wears perfume and when she does it's an old Avon blend that smells vaguely of lemons and champagne. I thought maybe it was a musk allergy, but the fact that she didn't react to Cordelia kind of scratches that off my list. Is there a terribly common ingredient in all these things that she would be reacting to? We'd both greatly appreciate any answers or speculation--this way, I can avoid ordering anything with this in it (or at least avoid wearing it around her).

 

 

My first guess with the Bluebeard reaction would be lavender. There have been some studies about lavender allergies after exposure to essential oils on bare skin that indicate it as a likely possible allergen. Also, lavender shows up in LOTS of perfumes.

 

Does she keep lavender around the house for other uses (wands, etc)? If those don't bother her, then I'm probably wrong, otherwise -- you may try eliminating the lavender.

 

 

Though it's interesting to note that people who tend to get migraines site as causes overstimulus of ANY sense:

 

"Excessive afferent stimulation (flashing lights, noise, strong perfumes) or hypothalamic changes resulting from emotion, stress or the operation of some internal clock may set in motion brainstem mechanisms, including spontaneous unilateral or bilateral discharge of pain pathways." (Aust N Z J Med 18(3):311-7)

 

So it could just be that she'll get a headache if a scent is "overstimulating" no matter what it contains -- a possibility indicated by her preference for a subtle scent. So the best prevention may just be wearing "skin scents" (smells that cling close to your skin with little or no throw) or no fragrance at all.

 

Best,

 

Tzi

 

(edited to include abstract information cause I love me some scientific studies)

Edited April 10, 2008 by tziporra

[CordeliaSeduced]

Thanks for the insight. Her problem is mostly with scents, but she will occasionally get headaches from music, motions, strobes, weather, etc. She does keep lavender sachets around the house, and makes frequent use of a particular sage/lavender smudge wand, so I don't think it's the lavender. The more I think about your comment, the more I think it's the more overwhelming scents--light scents don't bother her, nor do scents with little throw. Once a perfume seems to 'busy' or strong, that seems to do her in.

 

Thank you for the insight!

[terrenity]

Ever since the new Misk Valley etc scent popped up, I've been wondering if it contains actual peanut oil (to assimilate the peanut brittle)? I've got a nasty peanut allergy, and while I wouldn't even try the scent out of caution, I'm wondering if I need to be worried about cross-contamination in the lab. Has anyone else emailed the Lab about this, or should I go ahead and pop them an email?

[amnerine]

I read somewhere than tonka can be toxic. Has anyone ever had adverse reactions to oils with tonka in it from BPAL?

[crimescenecleanup]

Tziporra - I never wore Blood countess for long enough to test this theory, but I see it has a lilac note. and BPAL lilac note gives me a fierce headache in all the others blends it's in. Perhaps that's it?

 

amnerine - tonka is toxic, but not immediately. It's only through prolonged use and exposure that it can be considered toxic and/or a carcinogen, and as far as I know, that was only known from studies involving the use of cigars, cigarettes, and foods flavored with a particular extract of tonka.

So as long as you aren't ingesting it in large quantities, you're probably ok.

 

The lab may be using a tonka-scented oil that's safe, or perhaps there's nothing to fear from skin exposure.

 

If you are concerned about slathering yourself in any of the tonka blends on a daily basis and exposing yourself to too much, perhaps email the lab and ask them about it.

Edited April 29, 2008 by crimescenecleanup

[amnerine]

Thanks crimescenecleanup!

 

I'll keep that in mind depending exactly how decadent Vampire Tears turn out to be if/when I get it ^^

[Lethran]

Any news on the MV peanut oil thing?

[tziporra]

Tziporra - I never wore Blood countess for long enough to test this theory, but I see it has a lilac note. and BPAL lilac note gives me a fierce headache in all the others blends it's in. Perhaps that's it?

 

 

Ahhhhhhhh..... the lilac!!!! I hadn't considered that one!!!!

 

Thank you for the clue!

 

Best,

 

Tzi

[Lethran]

Love me just gave me a rash akin to sunburn in colour and sensation all over my neck. Is there something in it that gets more virulant with age? I had a similar problem with sacred Whore of Babylon.

[Lycanthrope]

Anyone have any problems getting sensitized to Balsam of Peru? I was just dabbing on and rereviewing the notes in A Farewell to False Love and noted it was listed as an ingredient. Regarding allergic contact dermatitis and common sensitizers, Balsam of Peru is among the top 10 offenders for new ACD (along with nickel... which I doubt is in perfume).

 

Mostly just to sate my curiosity.

 

I'll weigh in that something in Bengal and Arachnina gives me the burny skin something fierce, and I can't figure out what it is.

[ClareN]

I would also like an answer on the nut content of oils - in particular, does BPAL use almond carrier oil at all? I have a boyfriend with an almond allergy and I'd like to know which ones I can and can't try on his skin (other than those with almond actually listed in the notes).