What do bottles and labels look like?

[Voice of God]

Beth, the owner of Sunkist couldn't PM you or other labbies here as she was banned this morning when she joined in an attempt to make contact.

She was not, in fact banned. However, as she invoked the "L" word and at that point in time had not contacted the Lab, her posts regarding the manner were made invisible.

[SueDonym]

Well, I'm glad things are working out.

 

It seems a little odd to me since the LAB'S addie is ALL OVER their website that the person in question would splash this and other areas instead of sending a nice legal letter over to the lab, but whatever. It's a good attention getter. Am I to take it that this has become wank over on LJ? I must rush and see.

 

Had they been paintings, even photorealistic paintings based on an actual photo, oddly enough the ownership there would fall to the painter, rather than the person who took the photo since the two are considered artistically separate entities, unless I'm mistaken...which is entirely possible. I AM mistaken! Or partially so. Copyright law...every time I think I've got a handle on it...

 

Harpers ran some interesting articles about this and Molotov Man.

 

At this point I'd like to applaud both LJ and the forum for keeping it off their space. If it's a legal matter between the lab and Sunkist's owner then it should remain a private thing between them, hopefully resolved shortly and to the satisfaction of all parties.

 

That said, hooray that the Snake Pit has invaded the herpetology community. How cool is that?!!!

 

...um...I guess that was more geeky than I...well, actually I AM that geeky.

Edited May 26, 2007 by SueDonym

[snakegetters]

I did send an email to the customer service address listed on your web page. Today I sent a second email to another address kindly provided to me on my lj. My USA.net provider is generally pretty good about mail; it's my other accounts at yahoo and gmail that have been known to go astray. Though generally I only see those problems to and from AOL addresses. So I'm honestly not sure whose ISP is dropping the ball if you don't have at least two of my emails in your inbox. I included my phone number in the email.

 

My contact information is on my web page, http://www.snakegetters.com/email.html

 

I was quite surprised, and I'll admit, rather annoyed to suddenly find my snake being used to sell perfume. But I'm more than willing to work something out now that I know you were given misinformation on who the photo belonged to. Here's my suggestion to fix your potential copyright issues with the snake labels. Use my photos - WITH permission this time. We can work out the permissions. And I have plenty more spectacular snakes that don't mind posing. Custom poses and extreme closeups not a problem. Rights are all yours in perpetuity. Also if you show me the photos you are currently using where you are unsure of their owners, I may be able to identify their origin and put you in touch with the people who own those animals or took those photos.

 

The money I take in from photos and venom sampling generally goes to veterinary research and equipment, and sometimes directly to rescue and rehabilitation for animals in need. I'm less interested in profiteering than in making sure the animals have what they need, so I'll work with you on the cost if money's an issue on your end. I don't mind my photos being used, I just mind them being used without asking and without contributing anything at all to the rescue/rehab project that they were taken to benefit. http://www.snakegetters.com/rescue.html

 

Venom is another byproduct of the veterinary work I do with the pretty fanged things. I don't produce it in quantity, just samples for research, but how cool would it be to produce a limited edition of King Cobra with actual king cobra venom? Diluted to 1000X homeopathic concentrations, non pharmacologically active, but still real venom - and from the snake on the label, too.

 

Beth said that we were in contact.....and while I look forward to that, so far it hasn't happened. Maybe that means they actually got my emails? Hope so.

 

Regards,

 

Tanith Tyrr

Snake Getters

 

Beth, the owner of Sunkist couldn't PM you or other labbies here as she was banned this morning when she joined in an attempt to make contact.

 

Hi Gemma. I did actually think I'd been tossed. For one, some weird stuff happened (couldn't see any posts at all) after I got the admin PM telling me I was trolling. Also, all of my posts were deleted including a chatty introduction talking about my having run across BPAL many times in the past via friends who shared my gaming, larping, con-going, Ren Faire and filk interests. Never have sniffed any though; it's always been on my "to do" list since I love scents. So while I've had a bit of an abrupt and unusual introduction to the BPAL community, I actually wanted to stick my nose in for a sniff. Except that the admins dumped my introductory note, and, I thought, dumped me too.

 

Anyhow I followed the link you posted and found out I wasn't banned. So here I am.

 

But I'm sorry, I still don't actually have any clue who the "labbies" are. I did ask an admin where I should be discussing the issue, and I didn't get an answer. I am now gathering from this thread that the folks I should be talking to are named Macha and kebechet....but I've only figured that out as of roughly thirty seconds ago, so that's why I didn't PM them before. I DID email them through the addresses posted on the website, BEFORE I posted anything.

 

I understand that they're away at a convention - hope they have a blast - and won't have a lot of time to respond until they get back. That's fine, Sunkist can wait. Snakes are remarkably good at that.

 

I just sent a double PM to kebechet and Macha with a copy of what I emailed to bpaltm@gmail.com, in case it went astray. However when I try to go to my "sent box" it is empty. I hope that does not mean that the operation failed, but I'm afraid it might. If it did, my contact information is at the link above. It's also on my LJ profile, and plastered all over most of the English language venomous reptile forums in existence.

[LupaWulf]

I just sent a double PM to kebechet and Macha with a copy of what I emailed to bpaltm@gmail.com, in case it went astray. However when I try to go to my "sent box" it is empty. I hope that does not mean that the operation failed, but I'm afraid it might. If it did, my contact information is at the link above. It's also on my LJ profile, and plastered all over most of the English language venomous reptile forums in existence.

 

Don't worry, I believe this form's PM system only saves copies if you check a box below the message field. It's one of the only forums that has that enabled which I've run across at the moment.

 

I just looked again at the snakepit pictures- they look so pretty.

 

I agree with Tramp about label art if they end up recreating them.

[beachbabealways]

I went over to LJ and read about the King Cobra as well as the home page for the person in question.

 

I'm just curious ... why would we as a community want to post snarky comments to the rightful owner of this picture? It's of no help to Beth and could inflame the person who is already upset (and rightfully so). This person seems to be nice as they are not bashing but just stated a fact that the photo was stolen and being used on a product they did not give permission for it to be used on. They could actually file a lawsuit over this if they wanted. I'm sure the whole King Cobra thing was a mistake and it wasn't done intentionally but as forum members we should stay out of it. It's between Beth/Macha/and the person who took the picture. We all love and respect the lab(bies) and I know it pisses some off that this person spoke up but if the shoe was on the other foot, honestly ask yourself ... what would you have done? The Lab CAN take care of itself without our help and it just might be best if that's what happened.

JMHO.

 

Best of luck to all involved.

[jenpo]

I just sent a double PM to kebechet and Macha with a copy of what I emailed to bpaltm@gmail.com, in case it went astray. However when I try to go to my "sent box" it is empty. I hope that does not mean that the operation failed, but I'm afraid it might. If it did, my contact information is at the link above. It's also on my LJ profile, and plastered all over most of the English language venomous reptile forums in existence.

 

Tanith, sent messages won't show up in your "sent" box unless you specifically check the option to save them when you send it, so I'm sure they arrived at their intended location just fine.

 

As a personal request, I'd like to ask that from now on, any actual conversation between you and Beth or other representatives of the lab be handled in private (either via PM or email or whatever). Since this is a fan forum, and not an official lab forum, most of us are completely unaffiliated with the lab. As such, I feel a bit uncomfortable being witness to the business issues that the lab is facing, you know? I just feel like it is not our place to be involved in or witness to things that are usually (and rightfully so) handled privately and professionally.

 

Again, it's just a personal request, but I am sure I am not the only one uncomfortable with the situation. I'm glad that you seem to now be in contact with the lab (or will be upon their return to their offices, at the least) and am sure that the situation will be resolved to the mutual satisfaction of both parties. I just feel that, as you are in contact now, there isn't any need (for any of us) to continue to discuss or speculate upon this publicly. Thank you for understanding!

[snakegetters]

As a personal request, I'd like to ask that from now on, any actual conversation between you and Beth or other representatives of the lab be handled in private (either via PM or email or whatever). Since this is a fan forum, and not an official lab forum, most of us are completely unaffiliated with the lab. As such, I feel a bit uncomfortable being witness to the business issues that the lab is facing, you know? I just feel like it is not our place to be involved in or witness to things that are usually (and rightfully so) handled privately and professionally.

 

I'm sorry I've made people uncomfortable.

 

I'm not, really, part of the BPAL community. I haven't sniffed a single product, though I keep hearing and reading about them from so many of my friends that I've frequently drooled over them secondhand. But in a way, I live here already. The degree of crossover between my circles and BPAL fandom is interwoven like Celtic knotwork.

 

I feel pretty strongly that people have a right to know what's going on. But I don't feel that BPAL is really the villain here. Obviously that particular accolade belongs to whoever knowingly took a copyrighted image and represented it as their own, or as public domain. I think that BPAL has a pretty good chance to come out of this having gained rather than lost. Certainly I hope so.

 

I'll keep updating on my LJ because folks really do want to know - and deserve to know. But I also respect the fact that these forums are supposed to be for on topic discussion of scents, not for copyright related drama, so I guess that's where I'll leave it.

 

If someone would be kind enough to point me to a link to the Snake Pit photos, I will be glad to take a shot at identifying their origin.

Edited May 26, 2007 by snakegetters

[Tramp]

asp viper, coral snake, australian copperhead

 

green tree viper, banded sea snake, saw scaled viper

 

king cobra, anaconda

 

cottonmouth, death adder, bomslang

 

Western diamondback, temple viper, habu

 

Sorry for the crappy resolution on some of these - I think my hands were shaking in excitement - lol

 

[switched too-large inline images to links ~qs]

 

Snake pit labels can be seen here in my post from page 25.

 

ETA: edited post for clarity

 

ETA2: edited photo name links for clarity - hope it helps!

Edited May 26, 2007 by Tramp

[snakegetters]

Thank you. I cannot be sure how many incorrect species ID's there are in here due to the poor resolution, but there are a few. Atheris nitschei is not a "green tree viper" except in coloration and general habit; it is an African snake that bears no relation to the Asian Trimeresurus. The snake purporting to be a cottonmouth is Agkistrodon but not piscivorus. It is a neonate; juvenile coloration is strikingly different from the adult in this genus. I am fairly sure that is a Trimeresurus and not a Tropidolaemus in the supposed Temple Viper photo (it is definitely not wagleri), and the image purporting to be a habu is not of characteristic appearance for Trimeresurus flavoviridis. The head proportions on the Dispholidus are not correct for the species though the pattern and coloration is within range; it's possible that the image is correct but there is some distortion due to the curved bottle. I suspect but can't tell for sure that's an Eastern diamondback (adamanteus) not a Western diamondback (atrox). I need a closer look at the head to verify, and I can't distinguish it in this image.

 

The Echis (saw scaled) image is fine, likewise the Laticauda (sea snake).

 

I do not recognize any of the specific animals or images with the possible exception of the nitschei, and I believe they are likely to be stock photos.

 

Warning: stock photos of wildlife are very, very funny when it comes to taxonomy. You can get a good laugh by going through them and seeing what they label incorrectly. Which is mostly everything that is even slightly obscure.

Edited May 26, 2007 by snakegetters

[lady d]

ah -- ! i find this is all very fascinating, and i, for one, encourage you to keep posting. i hope everything works out well for both parties, and given how drawn the lab seems to be to snakes, how awesome is it to have an actual expert around? mind you, this may not be the best of circumstances for an expert to come under ... but if only some good can come from the bad, et cetera, and i'm impressed by your grace, generosity and tact. i'm also impressed by how much you seem to love your snake and how you came so passionately to this beautiful creature's defense.

 

it would be lovely to see money from the snake pit go to aid actual snakes ... i know the lab's done things for different charities before, and i hope they'll be receptive.

[snakegetters]

At this point I have made successful contact and I'm sure it will all work out just fine.

 

In the name of preventing any more snake labelling silliness, even if they don't have me provide the photos for the next set of snake labels, I'd be very glad to consult on whatever images they do use to make sure they are at least of the correct species they purport to be depicting. Stock wildlife photos really aren't. I've used stock photos extensively myself, and had some good laughs while re-labelling everything in the right genus and species.

[stellans]

I too am finding this snake information fascinating! I've loved snakes, lizards, and turtles pretty much as long as I can remember. My grandfather's barn housed a bull snake he greeted every morning, "Big Bill." Big Bill kept the rat population down in the horse barn, as well as kept rattlers away. I learned to tell poisonous from non-poisonous at an early age; in west Texas back then there was a lot more undeveloped land and much more native wildlife. It's hard for me to believe that the ubiquitous horny toad is now endangered!

 

Tanith, may your tribe increase.

[snakegetters]

Tanith, may your tribe increase.

 

Thank you - but be careful of what you wish for me! I'm already pretty overwhelmed with this season's rescues.

 

Visual treat for folks, an online exhibit from a "snake's eye" point of view: http://capefearserpentarium.com/SPT/index.html

 

Snakegetters.com isn't updating successfully for some reason, so the eye candy is here.

[GemmaCat]

Hi Gemma. I did actually think I'd been tossed. For one, some weird stuff happened (couldn't see any posts at all) after I got the admin PM telling me I was trolling. Also, all of my posts were deleted including a chatty introduction talking about my having run across BPAL many times in the past via friends who shared my gaming, larping, con-going, Ren Faire and filk interests. Never have sniffed any though; it's always been on my "to do" list since I love scents. So while I've had a bit of an abrupt and unusual introduction to the BPAL community, I actually wanted to stick my nose in for a sniff. Except that the admins dumped my introductory note, and, I thought, dumped me too.

 

Anyhow I followed the link you posted and found out I wasn't banned. So here I am.

 

Good! Nice to have you hear.

[snakegetters]

Can I beg somebody for clearer images of habu and temple viper?

 

The animal on the "temple viper" label is probably either Trimeresurus mcgregori, flavomaculatus or kanburiensis, but without better resolution I can't tell. It's definitely not Tropidolaemus wagleri. EDIT: someone gave me a better look, and the head morphology is consistent with Tropidolaemus, but the pattern, not so much. Either someone got happy with PhotoShop or there is a highly aberrant Tropidolaemus out there that I covet.

 

The "habu" could be a Sistrurus but at that resolution, I can't be sure. It's not T. flavoviridis. EDIT: At higher resolution it appears to be Sistrurus miliarius barbouri (dusky pygmy rattlesnake from Florida).

 

My curiosity is itching now and I wanna know. I also wanna know who is pawning off these photos under the incorrect species names, because they're silly. The labels are certainly very pretty, because it's hard (in my admittedly biased opinion) to find snakes that aren't pretty. They just aren't correct on the species.

 

Posted an update and an apology to BPAL here, for folks who also wanna know: http://danceswthcobras.livejournal.com/111277.html

Edited May 27, 2007 by snakegetters

[beachbabealways]

So glad ya'll got everything worked out snakegetters!!

 

Now, you need to buy some oils ... I'd start with Snake Oil & King Cobra. No really, you should.

You won't regret it but your wallet might.

[Lionesse]

I've looked everywhere and can't seem to find pictures or info. Does anyone have pictures of both Three Witches releases? Are they the same? Different? Can you post pics of them pretty please?

 

I'm trying to identify the orignal label from the resurrected label.

 

Thanks in advance!

[Diana]

I've looked everywhere and can't seem to find pictures or info. Does anyone have pictures of both Three Witches releases? Are they the same? Different? Can you post pics of them pretty please?

 

I'm trying to identify the orignal label from the resurrected label.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Here's a picture of the bottle from the re-release. It's exactly the same as the original label, so I don't know if there's any other way to tell it apart. Some people said it smelled differently than the original, but now that it's aged a few years, that may no longer be the case.

 

[Lionesse]

Thank you Diana. I guess I may never know which one I have =)

 

 

I've looked everywhere and can't seem to find pictures or info. Does anyone have pictures of both Three Witches releases? Are they the same? Different? Can you post pics of them pretty please?

 

I'm trying to identify the orignal label from the resurrected label.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Here's a picture of the bottle from the re-release. It's exactly the same as the original label, so I don't know if there's any other way to tell it apart. Some people said it smelled differently than the original, but now that it's aged a few years, that may no longer be the case.

 

 

[sookster]

can someone please post the purdee pix of the new convergence III bottles?

 

those and crumpet rebellion?

[portalkat]

can someone please post the purdee pix of the new convergence III bottles?

 

those and crumpet rebellion?

The pics are here and here

[sookster]

can someone please post the purdee pix of the new convergence III bottles?

 

those and crumpet rebellion?

The pics are here and here

 

 

awesome!! thanks so much!!

[willowtreeling]

any pics of Mad Tea Party labels?

[portalkat]

any pics of Mad Tea Party labels?

The Mad Tea Party labels look like the regular General Catalog Labels with the white background shown here top row right

[willowtreeling]

any pics of Mad Tea Party labels?

The Mad Tea Party labels look like the regular General Catalog Labels with the white background shown here top row right

thanks...i didn't know only the le ones had pictoral labels--newbie-ness;)

That's a good thing, because then I might be tempted to buy all of the Alice line, unsniffed, just to have the bottles!