BPAL and pregnancy

[pywacket]

If you're not applying to the skin, there's little risk of toxicity to the fetus, except in that list of specifically contraindicated oils.

 

snip

 

 

Thanks for all the information. Sadly it seems this one was not to be. We'll try again in a few months and once I feel better I'll do some more reading from the links and books given in this thread.

 

[Taniwha]

I don't know you pywacket, but I'm so sorry to hear that. 'Tis a very sad thing.

[pywacket]

I don't know you pywacket, but I'm so sorry to hear that. 'Tis a very sad thing.

 

 

Thank you for the kind words. We've had a bit of a shock, in that while the doctor was sure we were losing the pregnancy, well it's still holding on and progressing. So now out of no hope we have some at least.

[faylie]

So do I have this right:

 

I can use BPAL, just as long as there is no pennyroyal and it would be better to keep it away from skin, i.e. scent locket, on a cotton ball tucked inside pillow (I don't think I could go without Baku for that long) or diluted very much. Am I right in thinking this would apply while breastfeeding too?

 

Thanks,

Faylie.

[rhubarbbear]

i've been pregnant or nursing the entire time i've known about bpal (2 years now, time flies!). i was careful not to use the contraindicated oils during pg (and in fact wore a lot less perfume for some reason), and if i was in doubt i put the oil in a scent locket, or on my clothes or something.

 

as far as i know the same cautions need not apply during breastfeeding (but i am not a doctor, so please bear that in mind as ask a professional if in doubt!). the trouble with pennyroyal, for instance, is that it can stimulate uterine contractions, which could be bad during most of the pg, but not an issue while breastfeeding (esp as bf does the same thing). however, i've been told that there are some herbs which may have a negative impact on milk production. my personal decision about that is to only use oils containing those herbs in long rotation. milk production isn't really the kind of thing (unlike, say, early labor) which can be over or ruined in one day, yk? at any rate, i can say that i personally have not experienced any negative effects on breastfeeding from bpal (18 months for ds and currently at 10m for dd), tho of course ymmv.

[Kitrona]

Interesting thread... thanks for bringing it back up.

[graycat]

okay, so i understand the pennyroyal thing but what about all the other mints? i keep seeing conflicting lists, sometimes it's on the yes list sometimes it's on the no. the other thing i haven't be able to figure out is if it is bad, why?

 

i'm the biggest spooky fan and i even buy water with spearmint oil in it. i can't image 9 months with out....

[emzebel]

I know this has been said before, but it really cannot be said enough - for questions about the safety of specific blends it really is best to email the Lab (answers @ blackphoenixalchemylab . com), since it is not necessarily possible to go by the listed notes when determining safety.

 

I am absolutely positive that Beth would have no problem with letting anyone know if their favorite oil was counterindicated for pregnancy or breastfeeding.

[Kitrona]

Yes, but for legal reasons, they may have to contraindicate everything.

 

I personally have never heard that mint was bad during pregnancy, but I'd recommend emailing the lab for specific ingredients, then asking a doctor or herbalist.

[Miss Lynx]

The Lab seem to be being super-cautious with this topic now - Kettu just e-mailed them about it and they said not only that she should avoid all BPAL during the entire pregnancy but that so should I!

 

 

She came into my room and told me, and then promptly burst into tears.... and she's not even as hardcore an addict as I am! But she was really hoping to be able to use some of the Somnium oils for helping with sleep and dreamwork while pregnant, and some of the TALs (notably Bastet's Laughter) to deal with hormonally induced mood swings and depression.

 

It does look like the main ones they usually say to avoid are the more pungent herbals and spices, not so much the softer, earthier scents (except myrrh), so we may be able to make some educated guesses on that basis, but it's hard when we have no way of knowing the notes in most of the Somnium and TAL scents.

 

I've heard that the Lab used to tell people specific oils to avoid, but now I guess they're trying to protect themselves legally just in the case of any adverse reactions, by telling people to avoid everything. From a legal/business perspective this makes perfect sense, and it's what I'd probably tell them to do if I was a lawyer. But from a consumer perspective it really sucks, because I suspect very few BPAL addicts are really going to be willing to forgo the precious for an entire nine months, and this way, with no specific information, we're basically flying blind.

[theshapeshifter]

I'm opting to forgo it entirely during the first trimester - for after that, I've found several references on aromatherapy and essential oils in pregnancy that list ones to avoid, and basically any scent that either has those notes listed, or has no scent notes listed at all, will be staying out of the rotation for the duration. For others, I'll probably get a scent locket, just for caution's sake.

[em_h]

I can't speak specifically to BPAL during pregnancy, but I did use a few carefully selected aromatherapy oils later in my own pregnancy. First trimester, yeah, I'd agree that it's best to just swear off everything; and because no one knows all the components of the BPAL oils except Beth, it might be best to avoid them just in case. But I did use geranium essential oil as a hormone/mood balancer in my second and third trimesters. On the other hand lavender is a definite NO (it can be an abortifacient), which is hard on those of us who rely on it for sleep.

[birdiefu]

I'm 8 wks pregnant as well as still nursing my 2 year old and so sad to say I haven't used BPAL for weeks! Mostly because I can smell *everything* and hardly anything smells good to me anymore. I can even smell my closed imp box from 2 rooms away . Needless to say, I was very very sad when my Bitter Moon and other lovelys came in a while back and I had to put them away after just a brief sniff.

 

I'm hoping I can stand smells a little better come the 2nd tri, but I will still be collecting BPAL on notes only. It's driving me crazy, but I can't go without snagging up LEs with notes that usually work on me even though I will have to put them away as soon as they arrive. But it will be bliss when my nose returns to normal! I just had to vent a bit as I'm sure you ladies would understand the pain of BPAL withdrawal.

[sfsassy]

I just had a baby 3 months ago and when I was prego I hated anything smelly or fragrant. I sold a ton of my fragrances because everything that I loved made me feel sick.

 

Now I regret it because that feeling goes away. Hormones! haha

 

But you will feel better in your second and third trimester for sure.

Good Luck

 

SFSASSY

[talula_fairie]

Personally, I really don't think there is enough evidence through scientific studies that certain essential oils will cause serious harm in pregnancy BUT there also hasn't been a lot of study in this area. Really it's one of those things no one *knows* about but that we kind of assume is safe -like dying your hair while pregnant. I know the lab tells people no bpal at all during pregnancy because they don't want to be sued, and yes, it is better to err on the side of caution. It just bums me out when people make pregnancy (and sometimes nursing too) out to be this time where you can't do freakin' anything. There are a lot of things that are relativly low risk that we, as Americans, have blown way out of proportion...all the while minimizing the risks of medicalized birth (and this is coming from someone who had two epidurals). It yanks my chain!

 

Anyway. My point (and I do have one) is that yes you should avoid putting the "do not use while pregnant" oils on your skin (sage, lavender, eucalyptus, pennyroyal, ect), but really, I think using some bpal in pregnancy is fine. Get a scent locket or an oil burner. I really, really, really don't think that you could abort your baby just by smelling some bpal perfume that had some lavender in it. Even people who are purposely trying to abort their child using herbs have to take massive doses at exactly the right time in pregnancy. Short of drinking your bpal, I really don't think that would happen to you. Just my $.02

 

When I get pregnant again, assuming I can even stand any fragrance at all (unlikely, since a lot of perfumes made me ill when I was pregnant with both my kids...but it could happen) I will probably still use bpal. I'll let y'all know if my kid is born with two heads.

Edited January 2, 2007 by talula_fairie

[theshapeshifter]

I'm 14 weeks pregnant, and I've shied away from BPAL since my test came back positive, just to be on the safe side. Today, I felt up to giving it a cautious try, so I dabbed a teeny bit of Beaver Moon on the sleeves of my hoodie... most of the day I was alright, but towards the end of the day it got a little overwhelming. I did get a scent locket as a Yule gift, so maybe I'll try that out next.

[pywacket]

I'm wondering if anyone has a list of the ones that they used to no ill effect. I'm also wondering if the lab lists everything that goes into each blend (I'm guessing not, some things don't have *any* notes listed) so I could judge which ones might be safe. Oh can I use Antique lace or Bagdad? Or how about the foodie scents that I love like Eat Me and Cockaigne? I really miss those.

 

I'm only 8 weeks and I've had miscarriages so I'm staying away from it all right now, though I miss it a lot. So many things around me don't smell good, I'd like to use some of my nice smells to combat that, but the lab said a huge NO to everything. The scent locket is a possibility I've used before, but then the scents don't change on the skin and stay very strong. One of the things I appreciate about BPAL is how the scents change on you and as the day goes on.

 

I'm checking with my OB who seems to think that you'd have to go to extremes to make many of the oils dangerous (ingest them in quantity or use a considerable amount of the very bad ones like pennyroyal) but of course since I'm high risk I'm researching everything and being extra careful.

 

Any thoughts anyone has would be much appreciated.

[juniperus]

I'm wondering if anyone has a list of the ones that they used to no ill effect. I'm also wondering if the lab lists everything that goes into each blend (I'm guessing not, some things don't have *any* notes listed) so I could judge which ones might be safe. Oh can I use Antique lace or Bagdad? Or how about the foodie scents that I love like Eat Me and Cockaigne? I really miss those.

 

I'm only 8 weeks and I've had miscarriages so I'm staying away from it all right now, though I miss it a lot. So many things around me don't smell good, I'd like to use some of my nice smells to combat that, but the lab said a huge NO to everything. The scent locket is a possibility I've used before, but then the scents don't change on the skin and stay very strong. One of the things I appreciate about BPAL is how the scents change on you and as the day goes on.

 

I'm checking with my OB who seems to think that you'd have to go to extremes to make many of the oils dangerous (ingest them in quantity or use a considerable amount of the very bad ones like pennyroyal) but of course since I'm high risk I'm researching everything and being extra careful.

 

Any thoughts anyone has would be much appreciated.

If I get pregnant again I'm going scent locket, probably til the third trim. I miscarried this last time (nothing to do with any BPAL I might have worn, I assure you) so I can see myself having an emotional time if another pregnancy occurs...so something like a locket would be a comfort issue for me.

[Eleri]

another suggestion is to dilute the scent in a lotion, so that you get the scent without putting it straight on. I mentor Birthing From Within, and we dolotion on the feet for comfort, all the time.

 

But keep in mind that a scent you adore non-pregnant, may drive you nuts when you're pregnant, especially in labor.

Edited January 15, 2007 by Eleri

[pywacket]

another suggestion is to dilute the scent in a lotion, so that you get the scent without putting it straight on. I mentor Birthing From Within, and we dolotion on the feet for comfort, all the time.

 

But keep in mind that a scent you adore non-pregnant, may drive you nuts when you're pregnant, especially in labor.

 

 

My nose has the ability to smell things a mile away now that's for sure. Do you think if the scents are diluted in lotion that will remove the possible danger? I haven't used any scents yet and will check the descriptions for the ones that are bad for pregnancy, but what I worry about is that not all of the notes are listed. I've previously diluted in fractionated coconut oil and prefumer's alcohol, perhaps those will work too?

 

Thanks for the suggestions~!

[emzebel]

I'm wondering if anyone has a list of the ones that they used to no ill effect. I'm also wondering if the lab lists everything that goes into each blend (I'm guessing not, some things don't have *any* notes listed) so I could judge which ones might be safe. Oh can I use Antique lace or Bagdad? Or how about the foodie scents that I love like Eat Me and Cockaigne? I really miss those.

 

I'm only 8 weeks and I've had miscarriages so I'm staying away from it all right now, though I miss it a lot. So many things around me don't smell good, I'd like to use some of my nice smells to combat that, but the lab said a huge NO to everything. The scent locket is a possibility I've used before, but then the scents don't change on the skin and stay very strong. One of the things I appreciate about BPAL is how the scents change on you and as the day goes on.

 

I'm checking with my OB who seems to think that you'd have to go to extremes to make many of the oils dangerous (ingest them in quantity or use a considerable amount of the very bad ones like pennyroyal) but of course since I'm high risk I'm researching everything and being extra careful.

 

Any thoughts anyone has would be much appreciated.

 

I didn't know about BPAL yet when I was pregnant with my son, and hells, I'm not sure what I would do if we have another one to be honest...

 

But anyway - there are certain oils, such as pennyroyal (e.g. Mad Hatter) and rosemary (Bess), which are known to be dangerous during pregnancy. (There may be others as well, those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head. ;-) You can research others and talk to your OB - however, not every component is listed in detail - what are "green herbs" for instance? What are "night-blooming flowers"? What is cake?

 

In the meantime, I would guess that the Lab has been advised by its lawyers to refuse to advise on the subject to avoid potential liability.

[birdiefu]

I'm 14 weeks so thought I could go ahead a give a touch of BPAL a try, especially since I'm dying to love up all my new goodies. So I put the *tiniest* (just touched the wand tip to my skin in one spot, didn't swab it on) amount of Shub-Niggurath on. Well, it's a lovely scent but it's either me or this has the strongest throw in the world as that tiny speck of oil on my skin just permeated the room for a loooong time. Eventually had to wash it off- even though it smelled good, it was giving me a headache and upset tummy (but it's ginger!) . So I tucked the rest of my new little bottles away, still in their bubble wrap, for when I can tolerate them.

[nikkoblue]

I'm going to be trying to get pregnant again soon, and I found this on aromaweb....apparently theses oils have a 'reputation' of being 'generally' safe during pregnancy (or course, no guarantees etc and they're not responsible etc etc use with caution and understand you are taking a risk).....

 

The list below is a compilation, the lab recommends not wearing scents so I probably wouldn't. If you have any quesitons, check with your doctor or an aromatherapy specialist.

 

Benzoin

Bergamot

Grapefruit

Lavender

Lemon

Neroli

Orange

Patchouli

Sandalwood

Spearmint

Tea Tree

Vetiver

 

edited to add list i found of things to definitely avoid on naturalbloom.com:

Basil

Cedarwood

Cinnamon

Clary sage (OK during labour)

Clove

Cypress (OK after 5 months)

Fennel

Hyssop

Jasmine (OK during labour)

Juniper

Lemongrass

Myrrh

Parsley

Pennyroyal

Peppermint

Rosemary

Sweet marjoram

Thyme

 

 

I've been pregnant before and didn't change too many habits; I know I couldn't even stand any scents until i was about 4 or 5 months pregnant......I'll probably use a scent locket and go for scents with the above ingredients if I get pregnant again (many of which are my favorites anyway.....)

 

It's definitely true that society tends to make pregnancy almost like a debilitating condition (probably for legal reasons.....the US is just always suing people for their own decisions or actions)......it's important to be careful but you don't have to stop doing everything.

Edited February 21, 2007 by nikkoblue

[terrierhead]

I'd read through this thread and stopped using BPAL the instant I knew I was pregnant. However, for three weeks until I tested, I slathered myself daily in Shub. (I was having symptoms that I thought were bad PMS and thought there was no way I could be pregnant! )

 

I'm at 14 weeks now with no known problems from using the oil, but I'm wondering what effects might have happened and what my doctor should be on the lookout for. I told my doctor about the oil and she said that she wasn't sure what the risk was from it. My husband e-mailed the lab but we haven't gotten a response. Since it's Shub, I'm not precisely sure what's in it. I also had some exposure to Water of Notre Dame, but not much. Any help from anyone out there would be sincerely appreciated.

Edited May 30, 2007 by terrierhead

[rosetta]

I'm currently almost 18 weeks pregnant (my 2nd pregnancy), and I must admit I really didn't know even perfume could be dangerous... (As I'm sure the majority of women don't...)

Of course I know about EO's, but even regarding them, the info is so conflicting!! Just as an example:

 

I'm going to be trying to get pregnant again soon, and I found this on aromaweb....apparently theses oils have a 'reputation' of being 'generally' safe during pregnancy.....

 

Benzoin

Bergamot

Grapefruit

Lavender

Lemon

Neroli

Orange

Patchouli

Sandalwood

Spearmint

Tea Tree

Vetiver

 

Here is listed e.g. Lavender (which I've also heard elsewhere to be safe), which Talula_fairie below (and some other in this thread) mentions as "do not use in pregnancy" oil... It's nothing short of a minefield!!!

 

Mind you, I didn't use almost any perfume in the 1st trimester, as most smells made me nauseous, but now that problem is over, I've happily started using perfume normally again, including BPAL... (Well, not so much BPAL yet actually, as I currently the only actual BPAL I have is the remains of 5 ml bottle of my very favourite BPAL oil that I'm saving for very special occasions, but during the last week or so I have bought several imps on the swap forum here etc., so I was going to use it normally... Oh, and today I'm wearing the remains of an old Aunt Caroline's Joy Mojo imp - hopefully that doesn't contain any "stay away from" ingredients... )

 

Actually, I'd have thought BPAL perfumes would in fact be safer than ordinary, commercial ones, as BPAL oils don't have any alcohol, AFAIK? Which the commercial perfumes mostly consist of.

 

 

Personally, I really don't think there is enough evidence through scientific studies that certain essential oils will cause serious harm in pregnancy BUT there also hasn't been a lot of study in this area. Really it's one of those things no one *knows* about but that we kind of assume is safe -like dying your hair while pregnant. I know the lab tells people no bpal at all during pregnancy because they don't want to be sued, and yes, it is better to err on the side of caution. It just bums me out when people make pregnancy (and sometimes nursing too) out to be this time where you can't do freakin' anything. There are a lot of things that are relativly low risk that we, as Americans, have blown way out of proportion...all the while minimizing the risks of medicalized birth (and this is coming from someone who had two epidurals). It yanks my chain!

 

Anyway. My point (and I do have one) is that yes you should avoid putting the "do not use while pregnant" oils on your skin (sage, lavender, eucalyptus, pennyroyal, ect), but really, I think using some bpal in pregnancy is fine. Get a scent locket or an oil burner. I really, really, really don't think that you could abort your baby just by smelling some bpal perfume that had some lavender in it. Even people who are purposely trying to abort their child using herbs have to take massive doses at exactly the right time in pregnancy. Short of drinking your bpal, I really don't think that would happen to you. Just my $.02

Wise words indeed!

 

 

Oh, and would someone please tell me what is a scent locket..?

Edited September 28, 2009 by rosetta