Pronouncing "BPAL" and scent names!

[Mrs.Black]

Sorry, this is not really about pronunciation (although feel free to throw that in) – what does Schlafende Baigneuse mean?

 

According to one website's translation that I saw, it means "The Sleeping Bather". Most of the pages that I translated came up with "Sleeping", but weren't quite sure what "Baigneuse" was... this was the first that gave me more than "The Sleeping Baigneuse".

 

--M

 

"Bather" actually sounds right for "baigneuse." I vaguely remember that "bain" is "bath" in French. Um... is "schlafende" German and "baigneuse" French (or a related Romance language)? o_O

 

Thanks! Yes, I also find strange that it seems to be two different languages. Maybe it's a dialect of German or something?

[blu°]

It's not a dialect of German. I guess that the French baigneuse might have been used by a certain class of educated people around the time the painting was done. Maybe it was only the painter who used it in this case. Maybe it was a German speaking painter who painted bathing women in a French bath. Or something.

[yeahbutnobut]

Baigneuse does mean bather in French. (baigner means to bathe, etc...)

[Scarah]

Sorry, this is not really about pronunciation (although feel free to throw that in) – what does Schlafende Baigneuse mean?

 

According to one website's translation that I saw, it means "The Sleeping Bather". Most of the pages that I translated came up with "Sleeping", but weren't quite sure what "Baigneuse" was... this was the first that gave me more than "The Sleeping Baigneuse".

 

--M

 

"Bather" actually sounds right for "baigneuse." I vaguely remember that "bain" is "bath" in French. Um... is "schlafende" German and "baigneuse" French (or a related Romance language)? o_O

 

Precisely, German and French. Also, the bather is female.

 

[deep]

Since Japanese is a rather simple language to learn how to pronounce I'm going to post a few simple guidelines here in order to help people learn how to pronounce the Japanese inspired scents by themselves so they don't have to look them all up.

Unlike English, Japanese has rather consistent pronunciation rules. So there is not much of a silent "h" in this word (ex. herb), but not in another (ex. help). Although, there are some exceptions and regional dialects.

 

First of all you need to know the vowels.

A- "ah", ex: bah, father

I- "e,mii", ex: street, beet, wii

U- "ooh" (not "oh"), ex: school***

E- "a", ex: a date***

O- "oh", ex. hoe, bow

 

*** (This isn't quite correct, but will do for perfume pronouncing purposes.)

 

Now unlike the English alphabet that is composed of consonants (c, d, f) and vowels (a, e, i) the Japanese one has the vowels and then each constant followed by a vowel. The exception to this is "n".

ex: KA, KI, KU, KE, KO would be pronounced "kah, kee, koo (or cuu), kay, koh"

For the most part, again with a few exceptions, these consonants are similarly pronounced to those in English.

Using these guidelines you can pronounce most Japanese words that have been anglicized.

Let's take the last name "Yagami", like from Yagami light from Death Note, and break it down to the consonant/vowel syllables.

YA-GA-MI -> yah, gah, me (mii)

 

Now for some of the tricker consonants.

You may already know that Japanese has no separate distinction between "L" and "R". It's a different sound from both of them but from my experience it's usually easier for the casual person to err on the side of the "L".

So the translation of Yagami Light's first name in English was "Lighto" in some manga and "Righto" in others (it was an English inspired name to begin with, which is why it doesn't follow the consonant followed by a vowel rule).

There also is no "TI" or "TU", these are pronounced "CHI" (like the energy, not the statistical test or the tea), and "TSU" which is pronounced like "two" with the s sound added in or like "to sue" run together.

So Kitsune (which means fox) is KI-TSU-NE -> kee, tsoo-nay

 

Other consonant irregularities:

"SI" is "SHI" (she)

"HU" is "FU"

"ZI" and "DI" both are "JI"

There is no "C", but there is a "CH" (like church), CHA, CHI, CHO

The consonants K, S, H, P, B, R, and G can be followed by YA, YU, YO rather than A, U, O. These can be tricker to pronounce but are basically slurring the consonant sound to YA, YU, YO.

 

Also, remember that some words are anglicized differently, but are pronounced the same.

ex: Aizen-Myoo could be "Aizen-Myu" -> AH, ZAY,N-MY-U (OO)"

 

Sorry this was a bit longer than expected, but it should be complete enough for perfume pronouncing. Feel free to mention if I've gotten something wrong or left out something important.

Also: DISCLAIMER- I am not a native Japanese speaker

 

 

[hkhm]

Also, remember that some words are anglicized differently, but are pronounced the same.

ex: Aizen-Myoo could be "Aizen-Myu" -> AH, ZAY,N-MY-U (OO)"

 

it would be closer to "eye-zehn".

 

the vowel sound for e is closer to "eh" than the a in "date". many, many people mispronounce the "e" sound and say things like sah-KAY (for sake) when it is more properly pronounced sah-keh. the long a sound is a common mutation (even among some japanese) but it is far more pronounced in people learning the language.

 

so i pronounce it ki-tsu-neh.

 

other than this very minor difference, i concur with your guide.

[deep]

Also, remember that some words are anglicized differently, but are pronounced the same.

ex: Aizen-Myoo could be "Aizen-Myu" -> AH, ZAY,N-MY-U (OO)"

 

it would be closer to "eye-zehn".

 

the vowel sound for e is closer to "eh" than the a in "date". many, many people mispronounce the "e" sound and say things like sah-KAY (for sake) when it is more properly pronounced sah-keh. the long a sound is a common mutation (even among some japanese) but it is far more pronounced in people learning the language.

 

so i pronounce it ki-tsu-neh.

 

other than this very minor difference, i concur with your guide.

 

Thanks, I think some of the problem is that I have an accent so that I pronounce "keh" and "kay" in the same way. "Eh" is probably a much better standard english approximation.

[hkhm]

okay, himerus:

 

is it pronounced high-mer-us or him-er-us?

 

or some other way?

[ImperatrixMundi]

Himerus is Latin right? And as I remember from my days in school Latin vowels are very consistent and for me the pronounciation never was much of an issue in school because if you speak German you automatically get Latin 90% right because the vowels are pretty much the same. We never had to learn how to pronounce it, there are just some basic rules about which syllable to put the emphasis on - and don't ask me now, that was long ago. The grammar sucks though.

 

So my humble opinion would be Him-er-us. But the us at the end is not an us like in Toys'R'Us.

More like u in racoon but shorter. But I am pretty bad at writing English phonetically since that is not my native language.

[surf-tormented]

Himerus is Latin right? And as I remember from my days in school Latin vowels are very consistent and for me the pronounciation never was much of an issue in school because if you speak German you automatically get Latin 90% right because the vowels are pretty much the same. We never had to learn how to pronounce it, there are just some basic rules about which syllable to put the emphasis on - and don't ask me now, that was long ago. The grammar sucks though.

 

So my humble opinion would be Him-er-us. But the us at the end is not an us like in Toys'R'Us.

More like u in racoon but shorter. But I am pretty bad at writing English phonetically since that is not my native language.

 

 

I second the Him-er-us with the us being shorter. My experience comes from being in a Roman Reconstructionist coven and we try to pronounce all names like they would be in Ancient Rome. Not cool trying to ask a God for something and getting their name wrong!

[hkhm]

thanks! i wanted to make sure it was him-er-us before i spoke of it to someone.

[Lethran]

My Latin thirds the above, BTW. I'd tend to emphasize the middle sylable, but that's instinct more than distinct memory.

[storydancer]

How is Ladon pronounced? I've been saying, variously: LAY-don, LAH-don, La-DON. But I'd love to know the proper way to say it ...

 

[hkhm]

i always say LAY-don. but now i realize i've never bothered to look this one up...

[thebirdofhermes]

It's Greek, so my best guess is lah-dohn. (Not sure which syllable to stress, though.)

[Indigo78]

Someone has to ask:

 

XMVLZENCAB

 

Srsly, wtf.

 

[yellowbread]

The best I can wrangle it is She-muh-vl-sen-cahb. It's confusing me because 'V' isn't actually a consonant that is used by the Aztecs, if I remember correctly (and it's not like I was an expert in the first place). I'm having trouble trying to figure out which syllables are stressed as well.

 

Edited because i can spel gud.

Edited March 24, 2010 by yellowbread

[wvgemini]

Alright. I gotta ask it ... how on Earth do you pronounce

 

Harp of Cnoc I'Chosgair?

[storydancer]

It's Greek, so my best guess is lah-dohn. (Not sure which syllable to stress, though.)

 

Thanks

[Indigo78]

The best I can wrangle it is She-muh-vl-sen-cahb. It's confusing me because 'V' isn't actually a consonant that is used by the Aztecs, if I remember correctly (and it's not like I was an expert in the first place). I'm having trouble trying to figure out which syllables are stressed as well.

 

Edited because i can spel gud.

 

Thanks. It still reminds me of that old, early 80s Sesame Street song where Big Bird's trying to pronounce the entire alphabet as one word. But I want to say it right, especially if I love it as much as I think I will!)

 

[Lethran]

Alright. I gotta ask it ... how on Earth do you pronounce

 

Harp of Cnoc I'Chosgair?

I've heard Cnoc pronounced by someone who knew what they were doing as something like Ka-nook, with the short oo as in book. Alas it was paired with something different, so I can't help with the second.

[kattharia]

Alright. I gotta ask it ... how on Earth do you pronounce

 

Harp of Cnoc I'Chosgair?

 

 

LOL! I've been wondering the same thing! I have a friend who is a celtic harpist, I'll ask him and if he can help, I'll post it here. I'm leaving for Ireland in two weeks, maybe I should take my bottle and run up to the first person I see," Hey, can you tell me.......

[thebirdofhermes]

Xmvltzencab is "shmwul-TSAYN-cah", to the best of my recollection.

 

Cnoc I'Chosgair... and my Irish Gaelic is quite rusty, but I know the original poem the name is from, and in the original Gaelic it's "Chnuic Í Chosgair". So, you'd be correct saying it either "kuh-NOHK ee CHOHS-gah-eer" (ch would be the aspirated ch like in loch), or "chuh-NWIHK ee CHOHS-gah-eer".

 

Why yes, I am a repository of obscure linguistic knowledge. ::pats stack of language books proudly::

 

 

(That said, I am more certain of correctness on Xmvltzencab than I am on Cnoc I'Chosgair, simply because I can't recall how to pronounce the dipthong ai, so I'm assuming it's like most of the ones involving two short vowels where the first vowel is pronounced short and the second long. It could very well also be "gah-ihr", with both short... but the one I gave above sounds better to me and is easier to pronounce.)

[samarablackcat]

I had a Freudian slip last night at work...I called bpal BUY-PAL. Which it totally is

[veronicafranco]

i've got one.

does "kebechet" rhyme approximately with "trebuchet"? that's how it sounds in my head. heh!