Are bpal blends all-natural?

[starfish327]

Sorry, that was unclear... I want to know if BPAL blends commercial fragrance oils to make their products. Are they essential oils that Beth makes herself? Are they essential oils that she buys? Are they synthetic oils made by BPAL in chemistry labs?

 

it is my impression that they are eo-s sourced from other companies. from what i understand from people who actually distill their own oils for ritual use, it's really not all that easy to on a mass scale unless you're planning on just distillation, it's much easier to just purchase from a source.

[mineralgirl]

I had a whole big reply to this but I feel like it isn't worth my time, energy or disappointment...

 

I ask you - Is there some reason why you can't try the samples you ordered and form your own opinion? Does it even matter if the oils are 'natural? I'm certain the mall scents are far from 'natural'.. they are almost all alcohol ... they also lack creativity. I prefer not to smell like everyone else.

Edited January 26, 2010 by MineralGirl

[jayne]

Jayne, I think its all about taste, and where else can you find so many different scents that are affordable enough for anyone to try?

 

Well... I'm not trying to disparage BPAL or anything. Honestly, I just started learning about it recently. But I've been buying $3 samples from The Perfumed Court for the past year. I can get just about anything from there. BPAL is actually a little more expensive.

 

I don't think it matters if BPAL makes the oils they use. I paint and certainly don't make my own paints. I could, but why would anyone want to waste the time when they could focus on mixing what's already there?

 

I guess I've just been immersed in the world of traditional perfumery for awhile. People take a lot of pride in craftsmanship, on assembling their perfumes molecule by molecule or using the finest essential oils. Maybe I am being a bit prejudiced...

 

 

[Tramp]

a number of bpal blends over the years have had to be discontinued because their components could no longer be sourced. If they just used synthetics WTF would they have to be discontinued? Because you can always get synthetics.

[Delirium1009]

If you don't believe what the lab has said thus far about the sources of their components, then I doubt what any customer could say would sway you.

 

This post reminds me of the paraben complaints always popping up on Lush. Someone with no posts comes on, posts a bunch of info about how they bought the product and OMG it's not 100% natural, and how they're so disappointed. The truth is, bpal is fabulous to a lot of people, and not worth the money to others. I find it totally unique and a labor of love on the part of Beth and all the labbies. They're truly wonderful people with a fabulous product that I'm PROUD to spend money on.

 

But if you'd rather believe a few dissenters before you even sniff the stuff, go for it. It's your decision. I still think your post is super rude though.

 

ETA:

I don't think it matters if BPAL makes the oils they use. I paint and certainly don't make my own paints. I could, but why would anyone want to waste the time when they could focus on mixing what's already there?

 

I guess I've just been immersed in the world of traditional perfumery for awhile. People take a lot of pride in craftsmanship, on assembling their perfumes molecule by molecule or using the finest essential oils. Maybe I am being a bit prejudiced...

 

If you don't think this is the case with Beth and the labbies, then you know nothing about this company. They've stated time and time again that their oils are natural. Some are made from accords, but that's how all the big companies do scents that you can't get pure oils of (like do you think that CB uses REAL meat to make their Roast Beef accord?).

 

Not saying this is how the lab does it, but here is what CBIHP's site (who you say you're a fan of) says about synthetic accords, which they themselves use:

"“Synthetic” is a misleading term. By no means does it mean “bad”. All scent is in fact “synthesized”. These specially designed accords capture things that are not found easily in nature or in some cases not found there at all!

 

Synthetic accords can actually be made from organic materials – we can use “nature identical materials” to create flowers – like Honeysuckle or Wild Violet. Or these accords can be like completely inorganic like Doll Head and Soccer Ball.

 

All the accords I create however must perfectly capture the scent of whatever it’s supposed to be whether it’s Cheesecake or Cellophane Tape!"

 

It looks to me like you might just have it out for bpal.

Edited January 26, 2010 by Delirium1009

[AliBabble]

i would also guess that bpal uses a variety of sources for their oils - i'm sure they do use natural oils whenever possible, maybe augmented by synthetic ones, in the case of the "cotton candy" and "funnel cake" type smells...but i think it's clear that beth takes her perfumery pretty seriously, in both the quality department, and the concept department...the fact that it is reasonably priced doesn't cheapen the quality in my view...and i think the concepts and thought that goes into the perfumes is one of the things that appeals to its followers as much as the actual fragrances...

it's like a whole learning experience - and a world you enter into - as far as the connection of perfume to literature, culture/art, mythology, etc - and this is one of the things that makes the company so special, and separates it from other "regular" fragrance brands....

 

[Yvaine]

6 imps?

 

That isn't much of an investment to worry over. You will either like them or not.

I have to agree with the above. You were interested enough to place the order, try them out and see what you even think of the fragrances. If you've already ordered, what are you planning to do even if someone gives you the worst possible answer to your question?

 

As far as where the oils come from and how natural they are, the lab is the only place you're going to get an answer to that. You should probably email them directly and ask.

 

eta:

Jayne, I think its all about taste, and where else can you find so many different scents that are affordable enough for anyone to try?

 

Well... I'm not trying to disparage BPAL or anything. Honestly, I just started learning about it recently. But I've been buying $3 samples from The Perfumed Court for the past year. I can get just about anything from there. BPAL is actually a little more expensive.

 

I don't think it matters if BPAL makes the oils they use. I paint and certainly don't make my own paints. I could, but why would anyone want to waste the time when they could focus on mixing what's already there?

 

I guess I've just been immersed in the world of traditional perfumery for awhile. People take a lot of pride in craftsmanship, on assembling their perfumes molecule by molecule or using the finest essential oils. Maybe I am being a bit prejudiced...

The two bolded sound contradictory to me. What I'm reading from your remarks is that you say you aren't trying to be disparaging, but the quotes you have posted are, and the last bolded statement sounds like you're denigrating the creation process. You might want to clarify if this isn't what you mean.

 

Edited January 26, 2010 by Yvaine

[starfish327]

Jayne, I think its all about taste, and where else can you find so many different scents that are affordable enough for anyone to try?

 

Well... I'm not trying to disparage BPAL or anything. Honestly, I just started learning about it recently. But I've been buying $3 samples from The Perfumed Court for the past year. I can get just about anything from there. BPAL is actually a little more expensive.

 

I don't think it matters if BPAL makes the oils they use. I paint and certainly don't make my own paints. I could, but why would anyone want to waste the time when they could focus on mixing what's already there?

 

I guess I've just been immersed in the world of traditional perfumery for awhile. People take a lot of pride in craftsmanship, on assembling their perfumes molecule by molecule or using the finest essential oils. Maybe I am being a bit prejudiced...

 

i think the problem for a lot of people is that you're implying that without knowing the source, bpal is automatically at a lower level of craftsmanship.

 

even if she did order her oils from somewhere else, how do you know that beth isn't "[taking] a lot of pride in [her] craftmanship" or 'assembling' the perfume molecule by molecule?

 

[Wench457]

Hm. Someone who just joined the forum today, who has zero information in her profile, posts a bunch of disparaging stuff about something we all clearly love. Then acts all innocent about not wanting to cause offense. Why do I think this might be a TROLL?

Edited January 26, 2010 by Wench457

[Mordath]

I guess I've just been immersed in the world of traditional perfumery for awhile. People take a lot of pride in craftsmanship, on assembling their perfumes molecule by molecule or using the finest essential oils. Maybe I am being a bit prejudiced...

 

And you think Beth et al don't? That she doesn't spend sometimes years developing a scent, sweat blood trying to source the perfect components, etc? Because if you believe that then you're wrong. Dead wrong. Her posts here and elsewhere are a tribute to her artistry and dedication.

[jayne]

I would have to ask if you have hard proof that Guerlain uses natural oils? How much alcohol does Guerlain put into their perfume? How does it react to your skin?

 

I don't mind that Guerlain uses synthetics, but they are synthetics crafted by perfumers. I personally believe there is artistry to it. But alternatively, I can appreciate a small-scale perfumer who blends natural essential oils. I value that side of things too and definitely see the appeal. But it's that middle ground, of pre-blended synthetic oils that are found in Yankee Candles, that I want to avoid.

 

By the way, alcohol has never bothered my skin and I don't notice it after the first minute or two, although I know that isn't true for everybody.

[starfish327]

Hm. Someone who just joined the forum today, who has zero information in her profile, posts a bunch of disparaging stuff about something we all clearly love. Then acts all innocent about not wanting to cause offense. Why do I think this might be a TROLL?

 

most likely, but compared to the trolls that i normally have to deal with this is pretty low key...and i'm just cranky.

[ivyandpeony]

That's a lot of angst over a $25 purchase. Visit this thread, where the subject of natural perfumery's been discussed at lenghth and just make up your own mind when the order arrives.

[naeelah]

Sorry, that was unclear... I want to know if BPAL blends commercial fragrance oils to make their products. Are they essential oils that Beth makes herself? Are they essential oils that she buys? Are they synthetic oils made by BPAL in chemistry labs?

 

You'll find a 9 page FAQ thread here discussing this:

http://www.bpal.org/index.php?showtopic=11584

 

In short: yes.

 

Except to the part about synthetic oils made in chemistry labs. They don't use aldehydes and other synthetics common to commercial [department store type] perfumes. I don't know exactly where the synthetic boundary lies, but Beth most certainly is not going to soap websites and ordering their fragrance oils.

 

They use EOs, absolutes, and other natural infusions (such as gardenia). Many of these components they buy from small suppliers all over the world, some of them they make themselves. (I recall Beth asking for someone to send her some black walnuts one time.) They use some commercial fragrance oils (in that Beth does purchase some pre-blended accords). They also blend their own accords, so if you're smelling "cake batter" in a scent, it's anyone's guess whether Beth bought that from a blender or she blended it herself. It's probably a combination of both. That's just part of their secret.

 

Whatever the ingredients, be sure of one thing: Beth is a trained, master perfumer. She is not some Etsy hack ordering lotion making supplies and re-selling them. She could go to work for Guerlain if she wanted. That is not her style.

 

BPAL is about concepts, not traditional perfumery. Some of their scents smell like traditional perfumes. Some smell like cake. It just depends. And that's what we love about BPAL: all things are possible. In the past -- what is it, 6 years? -- they have created more than 1500 individual scents. The permanent catalog has more than 400 scents. You can be sure that there is a lot of variety in it.

 

If you don't like your samples, try some others. Maybe you won't like any of them. That's okay. Everyone has their own tastes. As for me, even Guerlain gives me a headache because it is so laden with horrible man made ingredients, like the alcohols and fixatives, not to mention aldehydes. BPAL has never had that effect on me. So what is a reviewer's definition of "quality"?

 

That's a lot of angst over a $25 purchase.

 

 

That's what I was thinking. And to the OP: if you don't like your first 6 samples (which is entirely possible), you'll notice that there is a thriving second hand market for BPAL, so you will easily be able to trade for other scents. You should have also noticed that the forum has a substantial review section, which contains all manners of reviews (not just hopelessly optimistic fangirl ones).

Edited January 26, 2010 by naeelah

[mineralgirl]

I think BPAL isn't for you, Jayne.

[Delirium1009]

I would have to ask if you have hard proof that Guerlain uses natural oils? How much alcohol does Guerlain put into their perfume? How does it react to your skin?

 

I don't mind that Guerlain uses synthetics, but they are synthetics crafted by perfumers. I personally believe there is artistry to it. But alternatively, I can appreciate a small-scale perfumer who blends natural essential oils. I value that side of things too and definitely see the appeal. But it's that middle ground, of pre-blended synthetic oils that are found in Yankee Candles, that I want to avoid.

 

By the way, alcohol has never bothered my skin and I don't notice it after the first minute or two, although I know that isn't true for everybody.

 

I can assure you that there is no possible way in hell that bpal uses the same fragrance oils that you would find in something like Yankee Candle.

 

And with that I'm done. This trolling is not worth my time.

Edited January 26, 2010 by Delirium1009

[jayne]

6 imps?

 

That isn't much of an investment to worry over. You will either like them or not.

 

$25 on perfume samples is a luxury for me, so it does matter.

 

[svelterose]

Well... I'm not trying to disparage BPAL or anything. Honestly, I just started learning about it recently. But I've been buying $3 samples from The Perfumed Court for the past year. I can get just about anything from there. BPAL is actually a little more expensive.

 

I guess I've just been immersed in the world of traditional perfumery for awhile. People take a lot of pride in craftsmanship, on assembling their perfumes molecule by molecule or using the finest essential oils. Maybe I am being a bit prejudiced...

 

 

Ahhh. I actually used to blow a lot of money on 'brand-name' perfumes. Unfortunately, they bore me. They smell good but I'm bored.

 

I got into BPAL due to a friend at el-jay posting some very lovely reviews that made me want to go and try it out. I perused the forum for six months, picking through the catalogue and since it was at a point in my life that I did not want to spend too much money, I got six imps.

 

I joined the forum and someone so very lovely sent me a bag of samples.

 

I tested, I tried and while I have my favorites in what you call 'traditional perfumery', BPAL is a never-ending source of wonder for me. I didn't mind the inquiry and I thought some of the responses here were a bit more defensive than required but then I read your "traditional perfumery" part and needed to give my two cents.

 

Beth has been studying perfumery for ohhhh...I think 20 years now? Please correct me if I'm wrong, I read this from somewhere and it was so fascinating that I had to repeat it. She's the sommelier of perfume in my opinion because damn, you don't study something so specific as perfumery unless you absolutely love it. That's a lot of the appeal for me. That is what 'traditional' to me implies. Self-made, uniquely-mentored, and everything she does comes out of her love for her work. You don't put all that work into developing a series of scents for 3 years (and counting), days writing up descriptions, putting yourself out there in the community if you don't 'love' it.

 

Gucci's Envy Me, Armani's Black Code and Mania, Dior, etc. are among some of my favorite commercial perfumes out there. Old school perfumery is gone with these companies though and I know for a fact that these guys have a lab of white coats creating their scents for them. That's all well and good because they have the capital to do so.

 

Beth is one person and the fact that all these scents come from one person - well, it make it that much more special. No one can beat BPAL and I just can't seem to stop myself from becoming fascinated with every update that comes. I look in despair at my credit card bill each time there's an update but hell, I still happily pay it.

 

But that's just my bias. ;]

Edited January 26, 2010 by SvelteRose

[apinchofsugar]

$25 is probably equivalent to a teaspoon of 1 scent of Chanel perfume diluted in alcohol. But you can make the judgment call on luxury and worth for yourself, I suppose.

 

6 imps?

 

That isn't much of an investment to worry over. You will either like them or not.

 

$25 on perfume samples is a luxury for me, so it does matter.

Edited January 26, 2010 by apinchofsugar

[jayne]

You'll find a 9 page FAQ thread here discussing this:

http://www.bpal.org/index.php?showtopic=11584...

 

Thanks for the link, naeelah. I'll check it out.

Edited January 26, 2010 by jayne

[Yvaine]

6 imps?

 

That isn't much of an investment to worry over. You will either like them or not.

 

$25 on perfume samples is a luxury for me, so it does matter.

Then in the future, you might wish to research your purchases more thoroughly before making them. In this case, you did not even look up the opinion of the perfume reviewer you regard so highly before making a luxury purchase?

 

You also might have noticed that there are numerous second-hand bpal sales in various places where you could pick up gently used samples for smaller prices which also might have been a better initial investment for you.

[Phaedra]

Beth has been studying perfumery for ohhhh...I think 30 years now? Please correct me if I'm wrong, I read this from somewhere and it was so fascinating that I had to repeat it. She's the sommelier of perfume in my opinion because damn, you don't study something so specific as perfumery unless you absolutely love it. That's a lot of the appeal for me. That is what 'traditional' to me implies. Self-made, uniquely-mentored, and everything she does comes out of her love for her work. You don't put all that work into developing a series of scents for 3 years (and counting), days writing up descriptions, putting yourself out there in the community if you don't 'love' it.

 

Beth is one person and the fact that all these scents come from one person - well, it make it that much more special. No one can beat BPAL and I just can't seem to stop myself from becoming fascinated with every update that comes. I look in despair at my credit card bill each time there's an update but hell, I still happily pay it.

 

FYI- I think Beth started her training when she was a teenager. She's 35 now so I don't think she started when she was 5 So it's probably more like 20 years experience which is still a pretty long time. Also don't forget that Brian creates some of the scents too

[svelterose]

$25 is probably worth a teaspoon of 1 scent of Chanel perfume diluted in alcohol. But you can make the judgment call on luxury and worth for yourself, I suppose.

 

6 imps?

 

That isn't much of an investment to worry over. You will either like them or not.

 

$25 on perfume samples is a luxury for me, so it does matter.

I was just about to edit my post saying that, LOL. I *hate* Chanel with a passion so I never got the appeal and certainly not the price that came with it. I've used Guerlain's facial products and that stuff is pretty heavily perfumed. It does it's job the same way any soap and water will do its job with 15x the price tag.

 

Careful though, it doesn't necessarily mean there's a lot of that artistry involved. Certainly, they take care with their products but research has shown that it's really just an R&D department. :/

[mistiwebster]

This post - http://www.bpal.org/index.php?s=&showt...t&p=1378402 should clear up a lot of questions. That post links to several responses, including one from Beth herself, that states the reason why they don't state their oils are 100% natural anymore is because of the synthetic line she produced for a raffle a few years ago.

 

That said, the quoted bits you posted remind me a lot of conversations I've seen elsewhere. Haute, couture and niche companies getting their panties in a twist when they are compared to something they consider so 'beneath' them. It absolutely sticks in their craw that someone out there has a product that people prefer to theirs, that doesn't have to rely on a decades-old reputation and that manages to be affordable to the unwashed masses, so they trash it however they can.

 

If you can get away with spraying alcohol on your skin, hey, that's cool! I can't. I wish I could! Every perfume I've ever tried has 'turned' on me, even the small decants from the Perfumed Court that I've tried (Guerlain, Givenchy, Chanel, Bond No. 9).

[svelterose]

Beth has been studying perfumery for ohhhh...I think 30 years now? Please correct me if I'm wrong, I read this from somewhere and it was so fascinating that I had to repeat it. She's the sommelier of perfume in my opinion because damn, you don't study something so specific as perfumery unless you absolutely love it. That's a lot of the appeal for me. That is what 'traditional' to me implies. Self-made, uniquely-mentored, and everything she does comes out of her love for her work. You don't put all that work into developing a series of scents for 3 years (and counting), days writing up descriptions, putting yourself out there in the community if you don't 'love' it.

 

Beth is one person and the fact that all these scents come from one person - well, it make it that much more special. No one can beat BPAL and I just can't seem to stop myself from becoming fascinated with every update that comes. I look in despair at my credit card bill each time there's an update but hell, I still happily pay it.

 

FYI- I think Beth started her training when she was a teenager. She's 35 now so I don't think she started when she was 5 So it's probably more like 20 years experience which is still a pretty long time. Also don't forget that Brian creates some of the scents too

LOL duly noted! I knew I got the time wrong. D:

 

And I know Brian creates some scents too but my post was totally gratutiously fan-girling Beth.