Are bpal blends all-natural?

[couscous]

Actually, I really loved The Rat King...

[savage_rose]

"Cupcuke" sounds disgusting, probably because it rhymes with "puke". Maybe it's a cucumber-flavored cupcake? Beth, PLEASE don't create any cupcuke blends!

 

Perhaps that moron from the other board could earn the right to his apparent condescension if he knew English grammar above a 10 year-old level. Or how to run spell check. I get that he evidently looooves CB perfumes as much as we loooove BPAL, but that doesn't mean he should spout a bunch of BS to make other people feel bad about their preferences. Yes, throw some big words in there, you're sounding smarterer already!

[portalkat]

And regarding how prolific we are... I don't have the time to be insulted right now. I can always slow down the updates if that'll increase buyer confidence. That's an option.

 

For Yule, all you get is Rat King. How's that?

 

(I kid, I kid.)

I don't know, Beth, maybe you could just sell empty bottles labeled, "Do It Yourself" and we can do this:

 

BPAL; 2 parts blood orange, 3 parts Egyptian musk, 1 part ocean mist

 

 

[Morrighana]

[ivyandpeony]

I'm inviting savage_rose over and we'll experiment with CupCuke. *snort* I can't believe I didn't notice that typo when I read it before. Buttercream icing and chocolate jimmies over layers of velvety cake and sliced cucumbers. Mmmm!

[maewitch]

Posts like that happen when someone is moderately educated on a subject, yet has very little experience with the subject matter they are discussing, and wants to come across as Saying Something Important.

 

They pretty much only succeed in sounding arrogant and ignorant, not to mention condescending.

[gwynhwyfar]

For Yule, all you get is Rat King. How's that?

 

Thanks, Beth! For the answer and for the lovely collection of scents that I (and the rest of us) have collected.

 

How about Revival of the Dead Yule? Rat King, Cracked Bell, SnowFlakes, the first incarnation of Mistletoe, Snow White, Rose Red, Christmas Rose, Noche Buena, all three versions of Lick It ... no need to do new blends! Just revive the dead and we're all happy!

[jewelbug]

And regarding how prolific we are... I don't have the time to be insulted right now. I can always slow down the updates if that'll increase buyer confidence. That's an option.

Why you should be insulted for being accused of excelling at your work is the big question. Anyway, thank you very much for coming in here and addressing the concerns. I know you've got a lot going on right now (perhaps the biggest understatement of the day), and we appreciate it!

 

"Cupcuke" sounds disgusting, probably because it rhymes with "puke". Maybe it's a cucumber-flavored cupcake? Beth, PLEASE don't create any cupcuke blends!

I dunno, I think she could make cupcake + cucumbers work somehow.

[ClareN]

Beth, thanks so much for the answer about the FAQ. I'd be a loyal customer no matter what, but it sets my mind at ease to have a definite answer.

 

As for the CBIHP fanboy, I think Maewitch said it best: he sounds exactly like those people who know a little bit about a subject and therefore need to be The Expert and pronounce judgment on areas they don't understand quite so well. It's like this older man I know who only listens to jazz, funk and soul and knows a lot about it, but tries to use that knowledge to explain to me that the bands I listen to are objectively worthless.

 

To continue the music analogy, some musicians only produce one great album in their lifetime; others (like my favorite band, The Mountain Goats) are incredibly prolific and might put out several albums in a year.[*] Yet music fans and critics are still somehow able to judge each album on its own merits. Seems obvious. Interestingly, I've tried about twenty CBIHP scents and only found one or two I really adore, which is lower than my hit rate with BPAL, despite the fact that CBIHP is so much less prolific and way more artistic or scientific or whatever.

 

[*] Hmm, now I'm wondering if my obsession with The Mountain Goats comes from the same place as my obsession with BPAL...there's something appealing about having a vast body of work to explore, trying to collect it all, tracking down rares, pondering connections and recurring themes between different songs/scents...Not to mention the frequent references to world mythology.

[savage_rose]

I'm inviting savage_rose over and we'll experiment with CupCuke. *snort* I can't believe I didn't notice that typo when I read it before. Buttercream icing and chocolate jimmies over layers of velvety cake and sliced cucumbers. Mmmm!

 

Okay, but I'm not eating it!

[midnight_aeval]

I think it was removed when Beth started experimenting with aldehydes (the synth note in some unreleased blends like...Toxin, I believe?). Since those blends never made it to the catalogue, the response you got from CS makes sense. I seem to recall Beth saying something about the FAQ needing to be updated.

 

To the best of my knowledge, the full list of prototypes in circulation that may contain aldehydes are Toxin, Nihil, and Zero. They were involved in the forum fundraiser auction last year. Nothing currently on offer from BPAL contains synthetics, or the Lab would be very clear about saying so.

 

 

 

And, like others have said above, I wouldn't be expecting that FAQ update until well after the little one arrives.

 

There was a forum fundraiser auction last year? I knew there was a raffle in 2006 before I made it to the forum, but I had no idea about a forum auction!

[lookingglass]

Thank you for clearing up pages of speculation. I, for one, would not care if BPAL WERE made of garbage (now THAT's artistry! ), it is the best House on the planet.

[Morrighana]

I think it was removed when Beth started experimenting with aldehydes (the synth note in some unreleased blends like...Toxin, I believe?). Since those blends never made it to the catalogue, the response you got from CS makes sense. I seem to recall Beth saying something about the FAQ needing to be updated.

 

To the best of my knowledge, the full list of prototypes in circulation that may contain aldehydes are Toxin, Nihil, and Zero. They were involved in the forum fundraiser auction raffle last year. Nothing currently on offer from BPAL contains synthetics, or the Lab would be very clear about saying so.

 

 

 

And, like others have said above, I wouldn't be expecting that FAQ update until well after the little one arrives.

 

There was a forum fundraiser auction last year? I knew there was a raffle in 2006 before I made it to the forum, but I had no idea about a forum auction!

 

Er, no. I mistyped, sorry! It was just a raffle, not an auction.

[Phaedra]

To continue the music analogy, some musicians only produce one great album in their lifetime; others (like my favorite band, The Mountain Goats) are incredibly prolific and might put out several albums in a year.[*] Yet music fans and critics are still somehow able to judge each album on its own merits. Seems obvious.

 

I've got it!!! Beth is the Prince of the perfume industry!! (in terms of being prolific and a hugely talented artist)

Edited August 31, 2008 by Phaedra

[Reenah]

I guess this is related to the topic....

 

My Q is about single notes. I understand putting out single notes of accords, like the musks and such, but if BPAL is 100% EOs, what's the point of a single note for an organic substance that has it's own EO readily available? Wouldn't a lavender or lotus or sandalwood (random notes off the top of my head, I'm not sure those have SNs) single note from BPAL just be lavender, lotus, or sandalwood essential oil? Or did Beth somehow augment those EOs with other EOs so they smell MORE like the actual thing that the EO? Is that even possible? Most EOs smell pretty lifelike to me already. But I've never smelt an SN, so I wouldn't know.

Edited October 11, 2008 by Reenah

[Juushika]

I guess this is related to the topic....

 

My Q is about single notes. I understand putting out single notes of accords, like the musks and such, but if BPAL is 100% EOs, what's the point of a single note for an organic substance that has it's own EO readily available? Wouldn't a lavender or lotus or sandalwood (random notes off the top of my head, I'm not sure those have SNs) single note from BPAL just be lavender, lotus, or sandalwood essential oil? Or did Beth somehow augment those EOs with other EOs so they smell MORE like the actual thing that the EO? Is that even possible? Most EOs smell pretty lifelike to me already. But I've never smelt an SN, so I wouldn't know.

 

The (original) price point of the BPAL single notes was lower the cost of a 5ml bottle of that essential oil, some BPAL components come from private distributors, and presumably Beth does combine different aromatic oils to create the base "notes" that are listed in her perfumes. So, yes, the SNs sold, once upon a time, by BPAL were probably unique, as boutique/accord or otherwise, not just a purchased EO bottled up, labeled, and sold. And even if not, it's sometimes a crapshoot to try and find a good EO source; the BPAL ones were created, approved, and/or presumably used by Beth, ergo they were a reliable, trusted source.

 

I've never smelled a BPAL SN either, myself, so I can't make individual comparisons. But that's what I'd figure.

[odalisque]

I understand putting out single notes of accords, like the musks and such, but if BPAL is 100% EOs, what's the point of a single note for an organic substance that has it's own EO readily available? Wouldn't a lavender or lotus or sandalwood (random notes off the top of my head, I'm not sure those have SNs) single note from BPAL just be lavender, lotus, or sandalwood essential oil? Or did Beth somehow augment those EOs with other EOs so they smell MORE like the actual thing that the EO? Is that even possible? Most EOs smell pretty lifelike to me already. But I've never smelt an SN, so I wouldn't know.

I think part of it is creating a scent that isn't just *A* lavender, it's *THE* lavender, the Archetypal Lavender. KWIM? There are different strains of just about every plant-based essence on the planet, and they all smell a little different.

 

And they also, if they're being sold as single-note perfumes rather than essential oils, need to be blended so they dry down consistently on the skin and last. Those areas would be where the perfumer's artistry is needed.

[Obscura]

And regarding how prolific we are... I don't have the time to be insulted right now. I can always slow down the updates if that'll increase buyer confidence. That's an option.

 

For Yule, all you get is Rat King. How's that?

 

(I kid, I kid.)

I don't know, Beth, maybe you could just sell empty bottles labeled, "Do It Yourself" and we can do this:

 

BPAL; 2 parts blood orange, 3 parts Egyptian musk, 1 part ocean mist

 

 

 

Oh my, that really made me

[eoifemacbeth]

Posts like that happen when someone is moderately educated on a subject, yet has very little experience with the subject matter they are discussing, and wants to come across as Saying Something Important.

 

They pretty much only succeed in sounding arrogant and ignorant, not to mention condescending.

 

There was a This American Life episode about this phenomenon once... they called it something like "Modern Asshole"? Whatever it was, it was hilarious, and definitely something we're all guilty of at one time or another.

 

I personally don't believe in belittling one person's beliefs or loves in comparison to mine, so that post from the CB fanboy did really make me mad. I've only tried a few things from CB, and they were nice (a couple of them were even pretty amazing---Burning Leaves, I'm looking at you) but it was quite clear that what Christopher Brosius does and what Beth does, while both being a kind of perfumer's trade, are so wildly different that they may as well not be compared at all. Contrasted, perhaps, but compared, to the extent to decide who is "better"? Heeeeell no.

 

And that dude needs to calm down the condescension. As Forspecial Plate said above, people HAVE tried to emulate BPAL's scents, and have failed miserably.

 

I know this topic is kind of old, but it was a good read for me, and I definitely agree that I would love BPAL no matter what they put in it---the fact that it's made from natural ingredients (if not essential oils) is just a bonus.

 

Also, buhhhhh, cupcuke totally not okay with that idea...

[awesomeoverlord]

I understand putting out single notes of accords, like the musks and such, but if BPAL is 100% EOs, what's the point of a single note for an organic substance that has it's own EO readily available? Wouldn't a lavender or lotus or sandalwood (random notes off the top of my head, I'm not sure those have SNs) single note from BPAL just be lavender, lotus, or sandalwood essential oil? Or did Beth somehow augment those EOs with other EOs so they smell MORE like the actual thing that the EO? Is that even possible? Most EOs smell pretty lifelike to me already. But I've never smelt an SN, so I wouldn't know.

I think part of it is creating a scent that isn't just *A* lavender, it's *THE* lavender, the Archetypal Lavender. KWIM? There are different strains of just about every plant-based essence on the planet, and they all smell a little different.

 

I'll just jump on the bandwagon with this old topic as well -- I muchly enjoyed reading it

 

The above point by odalisque is excellent. Being on the fringes on the industry myself (though I'll be the first to admit that I blend only a few of my own scents), I've come into contact with this issue quite frequently. Take that same old lavender EO -- there are SO many different varieties -- and apart from that, a Bulgarian Lavender from one supplier will quite rarely be identical to another's, regardless of the fact that they're apparently coming from the same species of plant. There's hardy such a thing as *THE* lavender in the world of EO. For instance, lavender 42/40 is a variety that's been altered to produce a more "typical" floral lavender that seems to be what most people expect from the scent, but I bet many an aromatherapist would turn her nose up at it.

 

Plus, if BPAL had been selling 5ml of pure sandalwood EO...well...let's not even go there At their prices, it would have been very generous indeed!

 

Ultimately, creating a "single note" that gets people to say, "Oh man, that's [insert random scent]!" requires as much artistry in blending as your typical bottle of Snake Oil, in my opinion.

[MCS4096]

wow, what a snooty bastard that dude was!

 

Most of what he said has been discussed at length, but one thing that really stood out to me was his comment on scent staying true over long periods of wear. I'm sorry, but that's one thing I love about BPAL! Sure, it's great to have some standbys that never let you down and smell true all day.. but BPAL blends are little adventures in a bottle! A scent that morphs is, to me, a true expression of how scent works with human body chemistry! This place has truly changed my life for the better and given me such joy!

 

ETA: Duh, forgot to mention.. As someone with a chemistry background (but no "perfume" background) I have to say-- just because something is "natural" doesn't make it safe, and just because something is "synthetic" it isnt dangerous. I'm a vegetarian (who tries to be vegan), and I buy organic, blah blah blah.. but I work with chemicals all day long.. My point is, it's nice to use "natural" products, but if you're worried about safety that is false comfort-- you breathe in nasty crap all day long. If you're worried about quality, I think that's also false.. synthetic chemistry is amazing. And as someone else said, using natural oils to blend a "synthetic" version of a scent is not much different. If you want natural just because it's natural, then you're a snooty bastard

Edited January 22, 2009 by MCS4096

[olive]

wow, what a snooty bastard that dude was!

 

Most of what he said has been discussed at length, but one thing that really stood out to me was his comment on scent staying true over long periods of wear. I'm sorry, but that's one thing I love about BPAL! Sure, it's great to have some standbys that never let you down and smell true all day.. but BPAL blends are little adventures in a bottle! A scent that morphs is, to me, a true expression of how scent works with human body chemistry! This place has truly changed my life for the better and given me such joy!

 

ETA: Duh, forgot to mention.. As someone with a chemistry background (but no "perfume" background) I have to say-- just because something is "natural" doesn't make it safe, and just because something is "synthetic" it isnt dangerous. I'm a vegetarian (who tries to be vegan), and I buy organic, blah blah blah.. but I work with chemicals all day long.. My point is, it's nice to use "natural" products, but if you're worried about safety that is false comfort-- you breathe in nasty crap all day long. If you're worried about quality, I think that's also false.. synthetic chemistry is amazing. And as someone else said, using natural oils to blend a "synthetic" version of a scent is not much different. If you want natural just because it's natural, then you're a snooty bastard

 

Your last paragraph is great! I agree completely. I think sometimes people get carried away with perfumes being 'all natural'. All natural is great with things like food, but with perfume? I think part of the reason so many perfumers use synthetics is because they are so damn stable and reliable, whereas naturals will change from batch to batch (which is why I notice many bpal blends will change and you can tell when a new batch has been made because the smell can be different -- just one of the pitfalls of all natural). Synthetic scents are not bad at all, they won't eat your arm away or poison you or anything. I also admit to being picky and hate putting on an oil that smells good at first then 3 hours later when I'm out and about it has morphed to something unfavorable. Synthetics tend to be more uniform in their scent body, more dependable in that aspect.

[lothien]

ETA: Duh, forgot to mention.. As someone with a chemistry background (but no "perfume" background) I have to say-- just because something is "natural" doesn't make it safe, and just because something is "synthetic" it isnt dangerous. I'm a vegetarian (who tries to be vegan), and I buy organic, blah blah blah.. but I work with chemicals all day long.. My point is, it's nice to use "natural" products, but if you're worried about safety that is false comfort-- you breathe in nasty crap all day long. If you're worried about quality, I think that's also false.. synthetic chemistry is amazing. And as someone else said, using natural oils to blend a "synthetic" version of a scent is not much different. If you want natural just because it's natural, then you're a snooty bastard

Nice points!

I like to remind people that arsenic is plenty natural and I don't want it in my cereal.

And the nightshade in my garden is organic. ^^

[naeelah]

A perfumer works with single building blocks . BPAL buys ready-made mixes of building blocks and blend them together. A perfumer has to have control over every single ingredient or molecule he or she uses. Their perfume has to smell good the moment you spray it on, still smell good when you're ordering dinner at the restaurant, and fade without smellimg weird.[/i]

 

Haha, this is what stood out to me in that guy's post, because that's exactly what most of us don't like about conventional perfume. Simply because, to get that level of stability and staying power, it require synthetic fixatives and such, most of the time (I know CBHIP doesn't use alcohol or garbage), and it's that kind of garbage that makes me sick.

 

I haven't read over this thread in a while, so glad these discussion have been resurrected. I had been wondering lately if the 'all natural' claim wasn't in need of updating, because I knew the FAQ was written years ago. I don't know much about bouquets, and it just seems like it would be almost impossible to make some notes without synthesizing it from the molecule up.

 

So I'll link back to crimscenecleanup's excellent post about her experience with watching perfumers mix bouquets: http://www.bpal.org/index.php?s=&showt...t&p=1211273 Read this if you're having doubts.

 

I trust what the lab says, but no matter what, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Even in an alternate universe where the lab is run by people who load their products with synthetics and have been lying through their teeth, the products are still high quality. I can't wear about 95% of department store perfumes, because they make me sick, or sneeze, or give me a headache. Whereas with BPAL, I CAN wear the vast, VAST majority of them. It's rare that I encounter allergies or sensitivities in BPAL products. And when I do, it's not the product, it's the plant.

 

So no matter what the products are made of, or what kind of bases Beth uses, nothing changes the fact that I like BPAL, it works for me, and the scents are well designed. We know that Beth mixes her own vanilla flower bouquet, but supposing she bought a pre-mixed bouquet from someone else. So what? If it works, use it. It's just one tool of many. She also buys absolutes and makes her own components from the plants themselves.

 

At one point in the thread, someone brought up that the lab clarifies that musks and ambergris are plant-based bouquets, but doesn't say anything about, say, strawberries. I think the reason for this is, if the lab says all ingredients are naturally derived, then many customers might assume that the musk is real, animal-derived musk. So I don't think they're trying to hide any secrets about other bouquets, just allaying fears of animal cruelty.

[VelvetSky]

I've tried lots of 'natural' perfumes that smelled good, but didn't last worth a diddly-squat on my skin.

 

And I've tried lots of synths that stuck to me like glue but smelled like a caustic vat of evil.

 

So whether a perfume is 100 percent this or that doesn't matter to me.

 

Seems to me that the key is the perfumer's skill with the ingredients. And I trust Beth totally on that score.